Why do people hate Nemesis?

[RyuRoots]

In that they at least both have some history with Picard, and the film could've fleshed them out more instead of going with the EVIL CLONE story. Hell, almost any antagonist character shown previously would make a better fit than the psychotic baldie who looks nothing like Picard.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

-Shinzon made ZERO sense. "The Romulans were mean to me growing up, so I'm gonna destroy Earth!" Huh?!

I read this canned response so often, and have never for the life of me been able to figure out why this is such a sticking point with so many people. Number one, because there are so many great villains out there with even less motivation. Number two, they always go back to Khan who has the worst motivation ever "I marooned myself by choice and now I blame Kirk for what I did, I'm so smart but I've never done anything to prove that, wahhh."

And number 3, Shinzon grew up on Romulus, where the Feds are known keep the empire from expanding and growing strong. Besides that, what happens when the Feds decide they don't like how Shinzon is running the place? There's a good chance they'll storm in, overthrow him and that will be that. So what's he want to do? Get rid of that threat. Take over the Romulans. And grow stronger by taking out the next big threat.
History is FILLED with this sort of thinking. Just as history is filled with so much FLAWED thinking (what, Hitler murdering all of those Jews makes sense to you?!?!?) that all of this just baffles me.

 

[BlueWolf]

In that they at least both have some history with Picard, and the film could've fleshed them out more instead of going with the EVIL CLONE story. Hell, almost any antagonist character shown previously would make a better fit than the psychotic baldie who looks nothing like Picard.

I've always wondered why Picard and Shinzon looked nothing like each other when Shinzon is meant to be his clone. Clones are meant to be identical (or thereabouts), no?

 

[RyuRoots]

Actually, the Romulans were probably a bigger threat to Shinzon than the Feds. I mean, he's been in control for what, half a week? before the first Romulan ships come trying to kill him. It's kind of hilarious how he talks down to them and uses "Romulan" in this insulting tone as an address. It's like he isn't the slightest bit cognizant of his own position. Also, he grew up as a slave to Romulans on Remus. He didn't grow up on Romulus. And Khan was an idiot, but at least you understood his idiotic motivations. Shizon's motivations aren't even idiotic, they're nonexistent.

 

[RoJoHen]

-Shinzon made ZERO sense. "The Romulans were mean to me growing up, so I'm gonna destroy Earth!" Huh?!

I read this canned response so often, and have never for the life of me been able to figure out why this is such a sticking point with so many people. Number one, because there are so many great villains out there with even less motivation. Number two, they always go back to Khan who has the worst motivation ever "I marooned myself by choice and now I blame Kirk for what I did, I'm so smart but I've never done anything to prove that, wahhh."

Well, in my own defense, I don't like Khan that much either, but his motivations make a lot more sense to me. He was marooned by Kirk, and Kirk never bothered to check on him. So when Ceti Alpha VI exploded, nobody was there to help them out, and as a result, his wife died. Kirk may not have killed her, but he was indirectly responsible for her death.

 

[MaxPower]

Well it seemed that the actors showed up for the pay check. Look at Picard and Data chats it was like they did not care to be there, it seemed. Also we at Trek BBS could come up with a better story. Everyone hope for a great movie and it had a lot of promising ideas but it never came to be.

Also the special effects were farmed out and it showed, nothing like First Contact.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

I loved the beginning of the movie with that sweeping shot right into the Romulan senate, and then they are all assassinated......oh this is going to be good i thought......then the Jeep appeared onscreen dragging behind it the battered emaciated corpse of my once loved trek franchise, i could still see the fresh marks left on it from where the Enterprise TV show had been beaten from it.

I let out a sigh and then sat twiching in my seat for the next 90 mins, wondering where all my fave TNG charactor had gone to.

And that was the end of Trek for me right up until May this year when they gave her back to us.

 

[Chrisisall]

I read this canned response so often, and have never for the life of me been able to figure out why this is such a sticking point with so many people. Number one, because there are so many great villains out there with even less motivation. Number two, they always go back to Khan who has the worst motivation ever "I marooned myself by choice and now I blame Kirk for what I did, I'm so smart but I've never done anything to prove that, wahhh."

LOL!!!

 

[Orac Zen]

Number two, they always go back to Khan who has the worst motivation ever "I marooned myself by choice and now I blame Kirk for what I did, I'm so smart but I've never done anything to prove that, wahhh."

Well, for the record I'm a non-fan of TWoK and Khan's feeble motive is one of the reasons I don't care for the movie. It's vaguely more credible than "everyone's mean to me so I'm gonna kill 'em" - which is about all the "motive" one can attribute to Shinzon - but only vaguely. YMMV.

And the marriage should have taken place at the end of the movie.

What a good idea.

I can't see how either Sela or Tomalak would've been better, Sela wasn't much of a character and Tomalak wasn't much of a villain by the end of the series.

I agree about Sela, but with a bit of effort Tomalak would have worked. Andreas Katsulas was a superlative actor and had the charisma to make the character work on the big screen.

Almost anything would have been an improvement on what we got.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Well it seemed that the actors showed up for the pay check. Look at Picard and Data chats it was like they did not care to be there, it seemed. .

This just isn't accurate. Look at the behind-the-scenes input Stewart and Spiner had. Yes, arguably, their input through all TNG movies helped to contribute to the demise, but they didn't intend that. They WANTED this movie to succeed - just like all the others. I didn't get at all that they "did not care to be there"; whatever other faults the movie had, indifference from the actors is not one of them.

For the record, I like Nemesis (as I've said in the other 1,000,000 threads on this very subject). It's not the best, but it's not the worst. It's not a fitting end to TNG, but it's serviceable.

 

[Balrog]

The premise of Nemesis was poorly conceived: Nature vs. Nurture. Picard's clone, Shinzon, was played up as being Picard. But anyone with even the slightest understanding of genetics understands that a clone is nothing more than a maternal twin. They have different life experiences and are different individuals. The movie falls apart at that point because they spend so much time lamenting about the Picard/Shinzon relationship it just becomes ridiculous.

That and I wanted to smack B-4 the Bobble-Headed Wonder 'Tard.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I loved Nemesis. It's one of my fave Trek movies.
I thought the nature vs. nurture thing was great.

Everyone else = wrong.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

But anyone with even the slightest understanding of genetics understands that a clone is nothing more than a maternal twin. They have different life experiences and are different individuals.

Anyone with even the slightest understanding of genetics understands that even sisters and brothers that aren't twins can and have been known to grow up with completely separate lives, yet share too many traits to simply call "coincidence". This is the whole reason for the nature vs. nurture debate. The fact that there are documented facts supporting both sides of things.

 

[Joker]

Come on, it wasn't THAT bad. I've met with various reasons as to why people didn't like it from "it didn't do well at the box office" to "Nemesis was bullshit". As a matter of fact, it's second favorite of mine to The Search for Spock. Sure, it did do bad at the box office so I've heard, but if Titanic didn't sell as many tickets, VHS's and limited edition DVD box sets (complete with calendars no less) as it did would it not be a good movie as well?

Ah yes.

Why do people hate shit movies.

Such questions of life shall forever be a mystery.

 

[KimMH]

aired on AMC last night and I was trapped in the room - had to watch it. On subsequent viewings I like it better. Not sure how many times I'll have to watch it before I love it but I do like it better than Generations. I felt worse about losing Data than Kirk. I feel badly about missing an android more than a human but not so badly I won't admit to it . . .

 

[Anika Hanson]

I loved it. It's one of my favourite star trek movies.

 

[BriGuy]

The movie itself was good.

It went down the toilet when Data died.

Killing Data was fine.

If it went down the toilet in that regard, it was the lame cop-out of having a "glimmer of hope" in him being "alive" in dimwitted B4.

 

[BlueWolf]

BriGuy, I'm going to pretend that I didn't just read your post there.

 

[Chrisisall]

If it went down the toilet in that regard, it was the lame cop-out of having a "glimmer of hope" in him being "alive" in dimwitted B4.

That made me cry, you big meanie!

 

[Itisnotlogical]

Killing Data was fine.

If it went down the toilet in that regard, it was the lame cop-out of having a "glimmer of hope" in him being "alive" in dimwitted B4.

Yes, because Data was such a lame character and it was just a matter of time before screenwriters killed him off, and there weren't so many episodes like "Data's Day" that made you attached to his character.