Here you go. If the cheapest sci-fi in history can do it, a little bit more budget will definetely give out some good results.
Why no Caitian characters in live action Trek?
- Thread starter Gotham Central
- Start date
well, be fair, Who's budget's aren't exactly in the 'green bubble-wrap monster' state they were in in the old days.
but, yeah, if Who can do it, damn sure a Trek show or movie should be able to.
i can haz live action Thundercats movie?
but, yeah, if Who can do it, damn sure a Trek show or movie should be able to.
i can haz live action Thundercats movie?
Yeah, but that's very recent felinoid makeup tech for that one! Recent "Doctor Who". I suggest "Beauty and the Beast" because it was the same era as the ST films being discussed.
Thank you, mb22! I was going to reference the character Novice Hame from the Doctor Who episodes "New Earth" and "Gridlock", but I see you did the leg work by presenting some fabulous shots of the character, the actress behind the makeup and the appliance itself. The Sister of Plenitude were one of the first feline designs for a television series (as opposed to a major motion picture) that had "hair" covering the entire piece. Usually, "fur" is merely "implied" by the use of patterned grease-paint.
Incidentally, the Plentitude" appliances were "single use" elements. They were so delicate that the process of removal at the end of the day's shooting damaged them beyond the possibility of reuse. But that limitatuon was not, er, limited to the furred facial appliances. I learned the newest Davros makeup is equally fragile. New pieces had to be ready every morning for Julian Bleach to wear. Factoring that, I suspect most to the elaborate prosthesis castings for "Nu Who" are equally delicate. It could be that's simply the norm. Greater detail for today's image recording equipment, but durability must be sacrificed as a result.
The point is, a believable M'Ress can be done now, even upon television. Some have stated she could only be realized through CGI. Personally, I don't think so. Novice Hame demonstrates the facial makeup complete with fur can be done. The choice of costume could aleviate several of the problems; long sleeves and trouser legs would negate the need for body fur. The tail? I've seen fan constructions that can sway in a rather believale fashion, without the need for motorized or cabled mechanisms. That could be used in full body shots. A cable controlled limb could be used when the actress is sitting or reclining. Digitigrade feet? Again, I've seen so-called "home grown" solutions that are quite believable. If a fan can engineer something in a garage, surely a professional production can design something similar. Or, if not "footwear", clever editing using close-ups and the occasional "composite" shot can be used with animatronic, puppeteered feet.
It really comes down to the time and budget willing to be used to create such a character, but the solutions exist.
Sincerely,
Bill
Incidentally, the Plentitude" appliances were "single use" elements. They were so delicate that the process of removal at the end of the day's shooting damaged them beyond the possibility of reuse. But that limitatuon was not, er, limited to the furred facial appliances. I learned the newest Davros makeup is equally fragile. New pieces had to be ready every morning for Julian Bleach to wear. Factoring that, I suspect most to the elaborate prosthesis castings for "Nu Who" are equally delicate. It could be that's simply the norm. Greater detail for today's image recording equipment, but durability must be sacrificed as a result.
The point is, a believable M'Ress can be done now, even upon television. Some have stated she could only be realized through CGI. Personally, I don't think so. Novice Hame demonstrates the facial makeup complete with fur can be done. The choice of costume could aleviate several of the problems; long sleeves and trouser legs would negate the need for body fur. The tail? I've seen fan constructions that can sway in a rather believale fashion, without the need for motorized or cabled mechanisms. That could be used in full body shots. A cable controlled limb could be used when the actress is sitting or reclining. Digitigrade feet? Again, I've seen so-called "home grown" solutions that are quite believable. If a fan can engineer something in a garage, surely a professional production can design something similar. Or, if not "footwear", clever editing using close-ups and the occasional "composite" shot can be used with animatronic, puppeteered feet.
It really comes down to the time and budget willing to be used to create such a character, but the solutions exist.
Sincerely,
Bill
They're kind of silly IMHO, and I don't trust them to make them not-silly. And look at the cat-woman from Dr Who: not that sexy when you're actually looking at a real-life version, wet animal nose and all. That's another thing: aliens are so often depicted as animal people, without trying to show them as evolved beings that just so happened to have evolved from a cat, or a pig (Tellarite), or a lizard (Xinti reptilian)...the scales are too big, the nose right off a mountain-lion, what have you. We evolved from animals similar to a chimp yet the Kirk's make-up doesn't include giant ears and black fur all over.
I think the Beauty and the Beast make-up comes closest to an evolved felinoid creature, yet the human hair (also on M'Ress) loses me. Same thing with the humanoid body. Perhaps if they'd do a superfine fur over most the body, getting longer and disappearing entirely in places. They'd probably have to go cg to do the legs, the tail...while they're at it maybe adjust the upper body to something more alien, and to truly convey the non-human movements of this cat-being. A species-tailored uniform as well. As I write this I'm more interested in the possibilities.
Found two images of Kzinti on this page. http://www.courtjones.com/my_tearsheets.html
I think they'd have more weight if they didn't look like matings of humans and Earth cats. Say if their fur wasn't in Earth cat colors or patterns and their physical structure while felinoid and roughly humanoid, did have some alien surprises to it.
I think the Beauty and the Beast make-up comes closest to an evolved felinoid creature, yet the human hair (also on M'Ress) loses me. Same thing with the humanoid body. Perhaps if they'd do a superfine fur over most the body, getting longer and disappearing entirely in places. They'd probably have to go cg to do the legs, the tail...while they're at it maybe adjust the upper body to something more alien, and to truly convey the non-human movements of this cat-being. A species-tailored uniform as well. As I write this I'm more interested in the possibilities.
Found two images of Kzinti on this page. http://www.courtjones.com/my_tearsheets.html
I think they'd have more weight if they didn't look like matings of humans and Earth cats. Say if their fur wasn't in Earth cat colors or patterns and their physical structure while felinoid and roughly humanoid, did have some alien surprises to it.
Don't leave it to Lucas, he'll just turn it into a racist stereotype.
Interesting idea - maybe the Caitians are alien furries?
You've missed some staff meetings. M'Ress has been a Furry Fandom pin-up girl for decades.
Poor M'Ress can't enjoy her...cameo! (And some of you thought I'd type "sandwich".) 
You make kitty cry!
And, just making sure I'm getting this straight, a sapient species that evolved from pelt covered predators is considered silly (I suspect Larry Niven feels differently), and yet, a Tolkien-esque elf with emotional repression issues and a Moe Howard haircut is considered the pinnacle of inspiration. Right, got it.
Sincerely,
Bill
And whoever blows a gasket over this is taking my tongue-in-cheek observations far too seriously.
You make kitty cry!
And, just making sure I'm getting this straight, a sapient species that evolved from pelt covered predators is considered silly (I suspect Larry Niven feels differently), and yet, a Tolkien-esque elf with emotional repression issues and a Moe Howard haircut is considered the pinnacle of inspiration. Right, got it.
Sincerely,
Bill
And whoever blows a gasket over this is taking my tongue-in-cheek observations far too seriously.
Redfern, I haven't seen you in awhile. Are you still working on CGI TAS stuff (like Ptrope's project)?
Jarok, a good portion of my potential forum "visiting" time has been cut since the company firewall has blocked the TrekBBS. No, not because I personally accessed it too much, a parameter added to the software deemed this site a location for "web communications".
As for Ptrope's project, I recently spent some time trying to improve a digital Gorn since one appears briefly in "The Time Trap", the episode Ptrope is adapting. Here's a link to the relevant post:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3046154&postcount=169
Ptrope himself has been introducing "hypothetical fourth season" upgrades to a model of the "second season" engine room Alt1701 made available for download. His concepts are really quite impressive.
Sorry for derailing the thread, guys, but a moderator did ask me a direct question.
Sincerely,
Bill
As for Ptrope's project, I recently spent some time trying to improve a digital Gorn since one appears briefly in "The Time Trap", the episode Ptrope is adapting. Here's a link to the relevant post:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3046154&postcount=169
Ptrope himself has been introducing "hypothetical fourth season" upgrades to a model of the "second season" engine room Alt1701 made available for download. His concepts are really quite impressive.
Sorry for derailing the thread, guys, but a moderator did ask me a direct question.
Sincerely,
Bill
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