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Avatar: The Last Airbender Teaser!

Even though Avatar isn't a Japanese show, it does have that similar character design oddity about hair and eye color. Many Japanese shows that are clearly supposed to be set in Japan seem to star white folk for some reason.
That's a cultural difference at work. For westerners, a character is Caucasian by default; in Japan, a character is Japanese by default, so regardless of all the nonstandard hair/eye colours (which are included as much as anything to give some range to the characters' appearances), they're perceived as being Japanese. Western audiences look at these cartoons from a western point of view, and see characters that not only have a lot of western-ish colouring, but lack the stereotypical markers we use for Japanese characters, and misread it. They have their own stereotypes to communicate Other-ness, one we don't recognize instinctively (Ursula K. LeGuin had this problem when seeing the Miyazawa-directed anime based on Earthsea; she was initially apoplectic that her cast had been bleached again (as it was in the live-action mini from a few years ago), but learned that the Japanese perceived them differently).
 
After seeing the teaser trailer...

I don't care to speculate anymore until I see the film.

I'm a fan of this series and now I'm interested in how the live-action film goes down.

They've convinced with this, that from a design standpoint, I don't need to worry.

Now...

They're going win or lose with me based on their adherence to the characters, their story-arcs and how well they adapt the show without loosing it's essence.

4 Main Things which must be included however...

-The Order of The White Lotus

-Zuko's Mother

-The Training each of the characters goes through over the course of the series...
>Sokka's Master
>Toph's Earth Bending Discovery
>Katara's Water Bending Discovery
>Zuko's Fire Bending Lessons from Iroh based on Water Bending Techniques

-King Bumi!
 
That's a cultural difference at work. For westerners, a character is Caucasian by default; in Japan, a character is Japanese by default, so regardless of all the nonstandard hair/eye colours (which are included as much as anything to give some range to the characters' appearances), they're perceived as being Japanese. Western audiences look at these cartoons from a western point of view, and see characters that not only have a lot of western-ish colouring, but lack the stereotypical markers we use for Japanese characters, and misread it. They have their own stereotypes to communicate Other-ness, one we don't recognize instinctively (Ursula K. LeGuin had this problem when seeing the Miyazawa-directed anime based on Earthsea; she was initially apoplectic that her cast had been bleached again (as it was in the live-action mini from a few years ago), but learned that the Japanese perceived them differently).

Well, that's part of it. But there is a longstanding tendency in Japanese cartooning to give characters a somewhat Westernized look, following the lead of Osamu Tezuka (of Astro Boy fame), who modeled his characters on Disney's design style.

If anything, I think the character designs in Avatar are consistently more Asian-looking than most anime designs I've seen.
 
A matter of interpretation. With the stylized and simplified character designs of animation, people sometimes tend to read their own ethnic expectations into a character. And no ethnic group is truly uniform anyway. Personally, I thought Azula looked to be the same basic type as other Fire Nation characters. She has pale skin, but her eyes and nose are definitely Asian.

As for Aang and Ty Lee, their look wasn't "Caucasian" so much as childlike, with oversized eyes. When we saw younger versions of Zuko, Azula, etc., they had bigger eyes too. Large eyes make us think of youth, because infants and children have larger eyes in proportion to their skulls. That's a universal human pattern, even a universal mammalian one, so it's not an ethnic marker.

Ty Lee and Azula had brown hair. Not black like everyone else. Brown. Ty Lee's was kind of dirty blond actually. So again, in general it seemed the characters were supposed to be somewhat racially neutral.

What? Who are you referring to?

The inmate in The Fire Nation prison. He had dark brown skin. And he certainly wasn't any Water Bender.

What? The closest thing to a "Middle Eastern" actor in a Fire Nation role is Shaun Toub, who's Iranian, aka Persian. Persians are a totally different ethnic group from Arabs, more closely related to Northern Indian peoples.

I said SOUTH ASIAN. As in Pakistan. What Al Queda calls home. And the guy playing The Fire Lord, he's played a Muslim terrorist in just about everything he's ever done. So I'm not talking bullshit here.

So while I would definitely prefer it if Katara and Sokka were portrayed by non-Caucasian actors, I think it's incorrect to say that the film is stereotyping non-Caucasians as villains.

I didn't say that. What I said was that having most of the enemies played by SOUTH ASIANS and MIDDLE EASTERNERS seems to play into negative stereotypes that I'm tired of.
 
The teaser trailer looks nice...but its just that...a teaser. I'm a bit skeptical on this movie in general and I have my doubts the trilogy will be completed.

I hope I'm wrong though. I'm a pretty hardcore Avatard and I want this series to do well. Nickelodeon treated it like crap toward the end of its run yet it deserves so much more.

Prove me wrong Shyamalan!
 
That's a cultural difference at work. For westerners, a character is Caucasian by default; in Japan, a character is Japanese by default, so regardless of all the nonstandard hair/eye colours (which are included as much as anything to give some range to the characters' appearances), they're perceived as being Japanese. Western audiences look at these cartoons from a western point of view, and see characters that not only have a lot of western-ish colouring, but lack the stereotypical markers we use for Japanese characters, and misread it. They have their own stereotypes to communicate Other-ness, one we don't recognize instinctively (Ursula K. LeGuin had this problem when seeing the Miyazawa-directed anime based on Earthsea; she was initially apoplectic that her cast had been bleached again (as it was in the live-action mini from a few years ago), but learned that the Japanese perceived them differently).
Well, that's part of it. But there is a longstanding tendency in Japanese cartooning to give characters a somewhat Westernized look, following the lead of Osamu Tezuka (of Astro Boy fame), who modeled his characters on Disney's design style.
If anything, I think the character designs in Avatar are consistently more Asian-looking than most anime designs I've seen.
I agree, many of the character designs are fairly well defined as far as ethnic makeup in Avatar, far better than most Anime. But the three main characters all look pretty indistinct, which may be on purpose to make them more accessible. I don’t have any problem with making them white.
It’s sort of like having them speaking English. Makes no sense, but I don’t care about it.

Also, regarding the ethnic markers, as I said, some of the characters in GITS do look Japanese, but most of them are either background characters or badguys. And they do clearly show other ethnic characters. I use that show as an example because of it's relative lack of 'wacky anime' style.

And I really think Vash from Trigun is supposed to be Aryan. Then again, maybe they were making some sort of point that I missed, I'm not too good with some of the anime storytelling conventions.

I'm not sure what the Japanese must think of something like "The Simpsons", but that show makes no attempt at correct human anatomy, much less faces.

Anyway, back on the main topic: I thought the first part of the trailer with Aang dancing around like the Star Wars kid in the candle room was pretty lame. The fire fleet attack was awesome though. So...mixed bag.
 
Ty Lee and Azula had brown hair. Not black like everyone else. Brown.

So? It's not like all Japanese people have exactly the same shade of hair. It naturally ranges from black to brown. Azula has the exact same hair color as Zuko and their mother Ursa. Here's young Roku and Sozin -- brown hair and darker brown, nearly black hair. And look at the kids from the Fire Nation school -- varying shades of brown, no black in sight. So you're wrong that "everybody else" has black hair. The only character I can think of whose hair is actually black is Mai, and that's because she's a goth-girl character. Also so that she and Ty Lee would be visually distinctive characters when teamed with Azula.


Ty Lee's was kind of dirty blond actually.

Dirty blond??? No way. In the screencaps, it's about the color of chocolate ice cream. Maybe you had the brightness on your TV up too high. (You're welcome for those screencaps, by the way.) ;)


What? Who are you referring to?

The inmate in The Fire Nation prison. He had dark brown skin. And he certainly wasn't any Water Bender.

"Dark brown" isn't black. And what inmate were you referring to? You mean Chit Sang? He's a bit swarthy, but it could just be a suntan. They do have suntans in Asia. And they don't all have exactly the same complexion any more than they have exactly the same hair color. Besides, Chit Sang has grey eyes.

I said SOUTH ASIAN. As in Pakistan. What Al Queda calls home.

You did specifically use the phrase "Evil Terrorist Arabs" in your previous post. Pakistanis aren't Arabs any more than Iranians are.

And the guy playing The Fire Lord, he's played a Muslim terrorist in just about everything he's ever done.

Looking over his IMDb filmography, I find characters named Zip, Kip, Peter, Fraser, Nessus the Centaur, Daniel Freeman, Billy Williams, Pablo Escobar, Claudio Perrini, Mike Camello, Frank Herrera, Detective Franklin, Mort Whitman, Captain Ariel, and Reuben "Rabbit" Palchuck. Not exactly Muslim names. If anything, it looks like he tends to get cast as Latin or Mediterranean types as often as not. Even though he's actually a Maori from New Zealand. Are you sure you're not confusing him with Faran Tahir?


I didn't say that. What I said was that having most of the enemies played by SOUTH ASIANS and MIDDLE EASTERNERS seems to play into negative stereotypes that I'm tired of.

Understood, but my point is that a lot of the good guys, in the second and third films, at least, will be played by South and East Asians as well. So you do have a point about the first film creating an appearance of ethnic bias, and that's what's unfortunate about the casting of Katara and Sokka; but it should balance out somewhat in subsequent films as Toph becomes a regular, Suki gets more involved, and Zuko feels his way toward the light.

And the only "Middle Easterner" in the cast is Shaun Toub, who's playing Iroh, and Iroh is far from a villainous character. He's one of the most likeable, admirable, and capable characters in the entire series. Toub is completely miscast in the role, but the role is by no means an insult to his ethnic group.


I agree, many of the character designs are fairly well defined as far as ethnic makeup in Avatar, far better than most Anime. But the three main characters all look pretty indistinct, which may be on purpose to make them more accessible. I don’t have any problem with making them white.

Given that Katara and Sokka are by far the darkest-complexioned regular characters, I find it odd that you'd call them "indistinct." Aside from the blue eyes, they're clearly based on the Inuit.



I'm not sure what the Japanese must think of something like "The Simpsons", but that show makes no attempt at correct human anatomy, much less faces.

The Japanese would take such things entirely in stride. Tezuka's characters were just as caricatured. The Japanese invented the "super-deformed" look. And have you seen the crazy hairstyles in a lot of anime? Bart, Lisa, and Marge would fit right in with Goku and Yugi.
 
Still think it was dumb to recast Asian/Inuit characters as white people (and cast an Indian as the main villain who was previously the palest; sheesh, given that Hollywood is so desperate not to offend anyone, they walked right into that one).
Ang, Sokka & Katarra all had blue eyes.

Even though Avatar isn't a Japanese show, it does have that similar character design oddity about hair and eye color. Many Japanese shows that are clearly supposed to be set in Japan seem to star white folk for some reason. So when they're adapted to live action they can either cast white people who actually look like the characters, or ignore their animated appearance. Or do some sort of crazy "White Chicks" thing, but that's not a serious option.

Weren't they going to do a GITS live action? All the Japanese main characters in that look white, aside from the chief, even though the show has a lot less stylization than most.

Maybe they redraw & recolor them for foreign audiences? :lol:
In a world were Turtle Ducks & Platypus Bears exist, maybe we should assume they are Asian but rather an obvious alternate world w/ Asian culture characteristics.
 
A matter of interpretation. With the stylized and simplified character designs of animation, people sometimes tend to read their own ethnic expectations into a character. And no ethnic group is truly uniform anyway. Personally, I thought Azula looked to be the same basic type as other Fire Nation characters. She has pale skin, but her eyes and nose are definitely Asian.

As for Aang and Ty Lee, their look wasn't "Caucasian" so much as childlike, with oversized eyes. When we saw younger versions of Zuko, Azula, etc., they had bigger eyes too. Large eyes make us think of youth, because infants and children have larger eyes in proportion to their skulls. That's a universal human pattern, even a universal mammalian one, so it's not an ethnic marker.
Ty Lee and Azula had brown hair. Not black like everyone else. Brown. Ty Lee's was kind of dirty blond actually. So again, in general it seemed the characters were supposed to be somewhat racially neutral.
Exactly.

Brown hair became a trait due to Asians intermixing with Europeans from even farther back than the days Marco Polo. Toph's hair is black too just like Mai's.
 
That looks pretty cool! I've only seen a handful of episodes--the first few, IIRC--but I want to hunt the show down and get caught up now.

I hope the movie is given serious treatment, and doesn't end up being some retarded quasi-comedy like Fantastic Four and the first Transformers were... to name a few.
 
^Based on what I've read, the movies will be toning down or removing a lot of the goofier comedy from the show and sticking more to its serious side.
 
^Based on what I've read, the movies will be toning down or removing a lot of the goofier comedy from the show and sticking more to its serious side.

Forgive me, for I know little of this show, but I do know a few bits and bobs, and I'm planning on viewing the film, so, is the Cabbage Merchant going to be in it? :)
 
^Based on what I've read, the movies will be toning down or removing a lot of the goofier comedy from the show and sticking more to its serious side.
Yeah, that's the one thing I've been disappointed by with the Promo pics. No big goofy grin on Aang's face.
 
I loved the series. My feeling after watching the teaser is, "so far, so good."

The casting thing doesn't bother me at all. In a world where we have illiterate gangsta robots, assigning the proper ethnicity to various fantasy civilizations seems a minor thing.
 
We now have headshots of the four lead characters from the film: Aang, Katara, Sokka, and Zuko:

http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00025700.html

Aang and Zuko look pretty good. Noah Ringer at least looks like he could be Asian, which is more than could possibly be said for Peltz and Rathbone. Peltz looks nice, but where are Katara's hair loopies?? And that Rathbone guy just does not look like he could be Sokka. Even aside from the ethnicity issue, I'm just not seeing it.

Also... they all look so damn grim. Where's the sense of fun? These pictures make it look like this is going to be one of Shyamalan's usual slow, somber, brooding pictures, and that's just the opposite of what A:TLA should be.
 
They look ok to me, they're just still shots.

How can you determine the tone of a film from still bust shots?
 
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