Opinions about Trip and T'Pol

[commodore64]

I can understand why the greater Trek community picks this as a winner.

It does?

It did. TATV was picked as one of the best of the captain episodes for Enterprise. I don't think it was all ENT fans picking it.

So you (too) are saying that we (ENT fans) are not part of the Trek community?

Nooooo, not at all. I'm saying Enterprise is a subset of Star Trek fans and Trip fans are a subset of Enterprise fans. No slight to the Enterprise community, of which I am a part of. And before someone misreads my comment about Trip, no slight intended there either. I'm an Archer fan and I'm a subset of the Enterprise community too ... albeit perhaps a smaller subset.

Me to. It's not like they had anything better to do anyway.

Boo! You know, there was a large part of me that enjoyed seeing Troi and Riker in TATV. Jonathan Frakes has been successful as director. I'm not sure what Marina Sirtis has been up to, but I'm sure she's successful. Despite not liking all the characters in TNG (and liking Deanna probably least of the ones I enjoyed), I always hope for everyone's success. Just like even though Trip was my least favorite on Enterprise, I hope Connor is not typecast and finds great success. It's our Trek and our actors (you know what I mean by our actors, many were discovered/made famous on this show). They deserve the best. Always. All of them.

 

[Middleman]

I often wondered why so many rehashed Episodes from other Trek Series. Seemingly telling the fans they were not important enough to write Original, fresh Episodes with contiinuity.

I truly believe that B&B created a wonderful series in Enterprise.

1. The concept of Enterprise was spot on.
2. The cast was outstanding (all of them) and brought wonderful characters to life. Archer was the perfect Captain for the NX-01 and Backula played him perfectly. I don't even have to discuss how awesome Billingsley, Trinneer and Blalock were in their respective roles.
3. The best SFX on television
4. Wonderful tie-ins to the original series

Unfortunately, after they set this all up, they didn't back away. They were doing Trek for too long to keep Enterprise fresh. Heck, I have no right to complain. I watched my first episode of Enterprise 2 1/2 years after it was canceled. (but I'll complain anyway)

 

[gblews]

Okay, a criticism, but not the kind she had at the end of season 3. Her criticism then was about the two characters being written into a romance and what she perceived as the T&A aspect of the romance. Her criticism of season 4 T/T had only to do with the "will they or won't they".

A timeless statement from TrekToday that isn't bound to season 3, imo:

These are also from season 4, from TrekToday:


In 2004, when she'd already received scripts season 4


Asked about the fate of T'Pol's relationship with Tucker, with whom she became intimate last season while exploring her emotions, Blalock said, "I think it's absolutely ridiculous that some catfish-eating honky-tonk guy would be appealing to this serene character, personally, but, you know, maybe there's something in the difference." She objected to the way the relationship came about last season, describing it as "'Hey, buddy, let's go do it.' Like, what is that?" and saying she would welcome more exploration if it evolved.

This was a quote from that same interview she did before season 4 started. I recall she said she had seen some of the early season 4 scripts and she liked what was going on with T'Pol. The part in Storm Front I where T'Pol mentions going home to Vulcan.

As she admitted at the UPN press tour last week, Blalock confirmed as well that dealing with T'Pol's emotions was difficult for her as a performer. "I kept asking a lot of questions to the producers and the writers. 'What do you mean by this? How far do you want me to go? Where's this coming from?' I really had to justify it to myself as an actor."

More quotes from before season 4 and direct references to season 3 storylines. Besides this one's not geramane to the subject at hand; that is, her negative criticism of T'Pol and Tucker being in a romance.

STUFF: Is this the season T’Pol finally gets a man?
JOLENE: Yeah, I think so. And I think that man’s going to be Connor Trinneer’s character, Trip. The writers have turned me onto - oh, for Christ’s sake, what the fuck is it called? - Trillium-D. T’Pol is addicted to Trillium-D. Since my character is a drug addict, she’s no longer in control of her emotions. So because of the Trillium-D, she might begin a relationship.

The timeframe for this quote was the subject of heated debate around here as I recall. There was never any definitive proof as to when exactly she uttered these words. I do know it wasn't after season 4. BTW, this Stuff Magazine "interview" was also the one where she stated that it was her in the scene with Connor in Harbinger (I know, not germane).

I think honestly, Jolene is committed to her character being as Vulcan as possible and is disappointed with what happened and how it was resolved. I agree with her. She may not dislike Coto as much as Braga, but I think again she's just disappointed overall in where she was and where she landed. I don't blame her. If I were the actress, I'd also be disappointed.

Jolene got some of the best acting pieces any woman has ever gotten in Trek. Think of it, she played a character who was expected to be emotionally repressed while secretly fascinated with emotions (to the point of using a drug to help her access repressed feelings), serving on a ship full of emotional humans, while falling for one of the most emotional humans on the ship. and all of this while keeping up the facade of being in control.

That she didn't realize what she was being given at the time, I think can only be chalked up to her inexperience as an actor.

 

[commodore64]

This was a quote from that same interview she did before season 4 started. I recall she said she had seen some of the early season 4 scripts and she liked what was going on with T'Pol. The part in Storm Front I where T'Pol mentions going home to Vulcan.

This was in late July of 2004. I could've easily made an assumption, but it seems that's when the television cycle starts to pick up for writers, actors, etc.

The timeframe for this quote was the subject of heated debate around here as I recall. There was never any definitive proof as to when exactly she uttered these words. I do know it wasn't after season 4.

The interview itself said it was at the end of Enterprise. ???

Jolene got some of the best acting pieces any woman has ever gotten in Trek. Think of it, she played a character who was expected to be emotionally repressed while secretly fascinated with emotions (to the point of using a drug to help her access repressed feelings), serving on a ship full of emotional humans, while falling for one of the most emotional humans on the ship. and all of this while keeping up the facade of being in control.

Mixed bag. She got some of the best and some of the worst. Since I'm a liberal arts major, I can confess I took creative writing classes, it's what my BA is in (along with history). Women, especially in olden times, were only interesting if a sinful woman, like Moll Flanders. I'd like to think we've come a long way baby. But alas, I don't think we have. Few roles are Starbuck (and I think even she had issues).

I think the perfect female role would be a woman with an amazing journey (learning a lot along the way), but with the self-confidence to succeed overcome her circumstances. She'd be valued. In the end, I don't think I can successfully say that T'Pol had overcome. I felt through the end of ENT (and not just TATV) that she was thrown under the bus. I can understand why Jolene said it was painful that she was so lost.

That she didn't realize what she was being given at the time, I think can only be chalked up to her inexperience as an actor.

You know, I think the fact she was so vocal was her inexperience. And yet I found it rather refreshing. She never said (other than the comment about how the TPTB should go play golf) anything mean about her fellow actors, any of the directors or the writers by name. I think her inexperience, as my earlier comments indicate, meant she didn't have much of a chance to voice her displeasure or other suggestions (like Scott did). I think her inexperience also led her to believe she would be taken seriously as an actress rather than looked on for her sexuality/Maxim covers.

God bless how naive she is.

 

[Prometheus]

I enjoyed the relationship between T'Pol and Trip, only wish the series had continued to see where the relationship would have gone

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

After reading through the posts today, there is just too much to respond to, and most of it off topic anyway. I've expressed my opinions, and I'll let them stand as written.

On the points where I am of a different opinion than any of you, I'll agree to disagree, and step away.

I do notice that the thread has largely morphed into a combination of "TATV SUX!!!11!" and duelling Blalock quotes about T'Pol. I'm not seeing a whole lotta Trip & T'Pol anymore. Is that the way you all want it now?

I enjoyed the relationship between T'Pol and Trip, only wish the series had continued to see where the relationship would have gone

Thank you, Prometheus. Welcome to the forum. I agree about wanting to see where TPTB would have taken it.

 

[Mach5]

Mach5: Don't you have some quotes from Andy Mangels and others that sum up what the greater Trek community though of TATV?

Sure dude...

The only people the authors and editor had to convince were the staff at CBS Consumer Products (formerly Paramount Licensing) headed by Paula Block. And Paula's been great about allowing the novelists creative freedom, so long as they stay true to the letter of the canon.

Just a side note: Not much convincing was needed.

Almost everyone involved with Enterprise HATED the finale. The actors have slagged it. Production personnel have trounced it. And without putting words in anyone's mouth (not Paula's certainly), I will say that I don't recall having spoken with ANYONE in the "professional arena" that liked the series finale.

I'm sure there must be someone who did like it in the professional arena besides Berman and Braga. I just don't recall hearing it from them.

Touche!

I do notice that the thread has largely morphed into a combination of "TATV SUX!!!11!"

Well TATV did (try to) murder TnT...

and dueling Blalock quotes about T'Pol.

Only logical, since she was one of the major TnT critics. People here are just trying to understand her mindset, and her basic misunderstanding of what Vulcans are about and stuff...

 

[Middleman]

I enjoyed the relationship between T'Pol and Trip, only wish the series had continued to see where the relationship would have gone

You and many, many others Prometheus. May I suggest that you pick up copies of the 2 relaunch books published so far "The Good That Men Do" and "Kobayashi Maru" to see where Trip & T'Pol's relationship has gone.

 

[Middleman]

Jolene got some of the best acting pieces any woman has ever gotten in Trek. Think of it, she played a character who was expected to be emotionally repressed while secretly fascinated with emotions (to the point of using a drug to help her access repressed feelings),...

That she didn't realize what she was being given at the time, I think can only be chalked up to her inexperience as an actor.

As someone who considers himself a fan of Jolene Blalock, I think you are spot on in your comments. I really think she had no idea back then of how blessed she was to be a part of this franchise and to have role that she was perfect for. Her comments had to be due to her inexperience as an actor and IMO her personal maturity at the time. That's not to say that she was totally wrong. I think she hit the nail on the head a few times in terms of the creative problems Enterprise had, it's just the way she articulated them that I'm sure few people took her seriously. Just read the quotes.

I really think that in many respects she did better job as a Vulcan in Enterprise than Nimoy did in TOS (no flames please).

...serving on a ship full of emotional humans, while falling for one of the most emotional humans on the ship. and all of this while keeping up the facade of being in control.

I didn't like the Trellium-D plot device that was used to explain accessing her emotions even though I fully understood the message the writers were trying to get across. It was totally unnecessary to justify her falling in love with Tucker.

Spoiler: Trek XI reference

If they just took the same approach that JJ Abrams' took with Spock and Uhura and let if flow naturally, it would have been more satisfying for everyone; actors and fans alike.

 

[Mach5]

It was totally unnecessary to justify her falling in love with Tucker.

Spoiler: Trek XI reference

If they just took the same approach that JJ Abrams' took with Spock and Uhura and let if flow naturally, it would have been more satisfying for everyone; actors and fans alike.

Absolutely. That Trell-D nonsense was retarded. As the great Sarek of Vulcan once said:

Spoiler: C'mon, dude, deal with it until June 8

"I married your mother because I loved her!"

 

[Middleman]

Absolutely. That Trell-D nonsense was retarded. As the great Sarek of Vulcan once said:

Spoiler: Trek XI reference

"I married your mother because I loved her!"

Thank you very much, I forgot about that!

One other thing: Based on all these Jolene quotes, it seems to me that she didn't understand her motivation for falling in love with Trip. (or put another way how T'Pol fell in love with Trip). I think some fans are confused also as to how it happened. I'm sure the crappy writing didn't help anybody with the understanding either. When time permits, I'll give you my take on it.

 

[Middleman]

Was it really necessary to bring down the heavy hand of censorship on our sarcasm regarding the Trek XI spoiler requirements? It's a rather benign form of protest.

 

[Penguin]

Trip loves T-Pol, T-Pol loves Trip. Or so many Fans believe myself included.

Unfortunately some retarded writers (Bless their pointed little heads) refused to let that romance develope.

There, back on topic.

 

[Mach5]

I can understand why the greater Trek community picks this as a winner.

It does?

It did. TATV was picked as one of the best of the captain episodes for Enterprise. I don't think it was all ENT fans picking it.

You might wanna check out this poll (which I started, inspired by a similar thread that had no poll).
So far, TATV got more votes than "And The Children Shall Lead," "Sub Rosa" and "Threshold," and from what I've seen, Trip fans haven't even discovered this poll yet.
Heck, even Mr.Bobo,the biggest Archer fan in all of Croatia (and a great guy) voted TATV.

Was it really necessary to bring down the heavy hand of censorship...

Censorship is a tool of evil, I should know. There has been plenty of it where I'm from (first during the communist era, then during the post-communist 1990-es), and nothing good came from it. You Americans should know better too, you have this thing called "The First Amendment" which allows even the sorriest of bigots to speak their retarded minds. But jokingly poking people for not seeing Trek XI is a tad too much, I guess...

 

[Middleman]

Censorship is a tool of evil, I should know. There has been plenty of it where I'm from (first during the communist era, then during the post-communist 1990-es), and nothing good came from it. You Americans should know better too, you have this thing called "The First Amendment" which allows even the sorriest of bigots to speak their retarded minds. But jokingly poking people for not seeing Trek XI is a tad too much, I guess...

I'm sure someone from your background appreciates freedom of speech more than many Americans do. Our freedom of speech here is misunderstood by many and it's not as free as you would think. The first amendment protects us from certain government censorship, but not all. If you feel the government violates your freedom your only recourse usually is a lengthy and expensive court battle. The first amendment does not protect you from censorship by private organizations, such as this board or an employer, who are pretty much free to do what they like, as long as they are not violating other laws or contracts.

When we sign on here we all know we should abide by the rules and what we says is subject to "moderation" (funny how the word moderation is derived from the word moderate). Rules are always subject to interpretation and the way things seem to be set up here, the moderator is the final interpreter of the rules. How broadly or narrowly the moderator chooses to interpret the rules will determine how free the conversation will flow here. There is a fine line between moderation and censorship, and from what I've seen since I've joined here, that line has been crossed several times (IMO). However, the rule of the internet is: you can never ever win an argument with the person who is holding the delete key. They can do as they please (you know, that absolute power thing).

I understand and appreciate the effort that the people running this board put in to keeping this place from becoming a zoo like StarTrek.com. For the most part they maintain a vary pleasant posting experience here. However, it can be just as bad when they over compensate in the other direction.

 

[commodore64]

You might wanna check out this poll (which I started, inspired by a similar thread that had no poll).

I'm just telling you what ended up on the best of the Captains. People voted for TATV and it ended up on Archer's list of best episodes for all eternity (or as long as DVDs, HD-DVDs/Blu-ray lasts). Someone likes it. Enough someones to make it show up there. Our little universe is very small indeed here on Ent forum. There's a big world out there.

 

[Mach5]

Someone likes it. Enough someones to make it show up there.

Yeah, I remember that. The great mystery. That vote was probably rigged anyway (What someones, how many someones, where did the voting take place, how many votes did the other episodes get... do we know any of this?)

Still, the fact remains, TATV is (by far) the lowest rated ENT episode on both IMDb and TV.com. It was slagged even on the non-trek boards like this...

...and then there's always this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/These_are_the_voyages#Reception, and the very fact that Paula Block allowed a TATV fix speaks volumes.

This, I believe wraps this pointless TATV discussion. Now we pray that HR doesn't murder is in our sleep for turning this thread into a "Earth is round / no it isn't!" bickering.

 

[Middleman]

[Yeah, I remember that. The great mystery. That vote was probably rigged anyway (What someones, how many someones, where did the voting take place, how many votes did the other episodes get... do we know any of this?)

I don't care what anyone says, I don't believe for a minute that real fans chose that episode to be included in the DVD. If fans actually did choose it, the group polled must have been heavily skewed with Enterprise Bashers and those "fans" that enjoyed seeing Trip die for various reasons.

Still, the fact remains, TATV is (by far) the lowest rated ENT episode on both IMDb and TV.com. It was slagged even on the non-trek boards like this...

Here is the TV.com ranking.
http://www.tv.com/Star+Trek%3A+Enterprise/show/2498/episode.html?shv=list&season=All

 

[Lady Conqueror]

Here's the total dilaog. I bolded what I thought was the most relevant piece, which Jolene agrees with in quotes already provided from her.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]T'POL: Doctor.
PHLOX: Yes, this will just take a moment. (she grabs his arm) What is it?
PHLOX: (after examining her) There's a good deal of residual trellium in your bloodstream. How long have you been doing this?
T'POL: Three months.
PHLOX: I need to know precisely what has been happening.
T'POL: When I was exposed to trellium aboard the Seleya, it affected me in a way that I wasn't prepared for.
PHLOX: As I recall, you were homicidal and paranoid.
T'POL: The initial effects were overwhelming, but as they began to wear off I discovered I was able to access certain emotions. I wanted more. I began to experiment by ingesting small amounts of trellium. I devised a way to inject it into my bloodstream.
PHLOX: You must have known it was dangerous. Trellium exposure is deadly to Vulcans. It eats away at the neural pathways.
T'POL: I thought, in small amounts, it would be safe. At first, I was able to control the new emotions. My interactions with the crew improved.
PHLOX: Commander Tucker, for example. When did you realise you were becoming addicted? [/FONT]

Go back and watch the dialog and it becomes clear that while Phlox says it's an 'example,' he doesn't believe it. It seems clear to me, he means the crew = Cmdr. Tucker in her statement.

Of course Phlox could be wrong* From my perspective, T'Pol probably initially started taking the Trellium because of Archer (this may or may not be the thread to elaborate on it, i'll withhold for now), and her emotions and interactions about and with Trip were probably an unexpected consequence.

I certainly don't think she would have slept with Trip if she hadn't been doing the Trellium. I think she would have been jealous of Cole still (there is arguably enough evidence in Seasons 1 & 2 to show that T'Pol could go there) but I doubt she would have gone to Trip's quarter's with the intention to seduce him.

*I often wonder about Phlox's psychology degree. I think it's a Denobulan degree and when he tries to apply it to humans (or Vulcans) it just doesn't always really work - he's been off the mark on a number of occasions.

 

[bluedana]

*I often wonder about Phlox's psychology degree. I think it's a Denobulan degree and when he tries to apply it to humans (or Vulcans) it just doesn't always really work - he's been off the mark on a number of occasions.

Seriously. I'm pretty sure that every single time Phlox tried to psychoanalyze anybody on board, he got it blazingly wrong.

Trip and T'Pol getting together didn't (and doesn't) bother me any more than any other soap-opera-in-space aspect of any Trek series did. I'm just not one who believes that all good stories need a hook-up. (I'm currently reading the Destiny series, and I find myself skimming over the Troi/Riker relationship parts to get back to the space battle and Columbia plots. I just don't care that much about their struggles as a couple. Never have.) That said, I do believe T'Pol got involved with Trip because of the Trell-D. Again, not outlandish to me; she says that after her Impulse exposure, she "wanted more." Makes sense to me; it felt good, and (like anybody who self-medicates) she tried to recapture or replicate that feeling. Part of it was the ability to lose her cultural and biological inhibitions, and let's face it, intimacy (both physical and emotional) feels good. But having opened that Pandora's Box, she didn't know what to do with it. She was able to acknowledge her feelings of attraction for Trip, something she never would have without the Trellium boost, and wasn't able to get that particular genie back into the bottle. She tried - that's what Season 4 was all about. Discovering the Kir'Shara allowed her to realize that emotion, per se, wasn't wrong, and she takes the next step in Vulcan evolution: mastery, not denial, of emotions. I also think that, not being raised in an overtly sexual culture, she was unprepared for the intensity of the attraction. I do believe she initially approached it as, Huh, let's see what this whole sex thing is about, and afterwards was like, Oh. Wasn't expecting that. Now what the hell do I do? She didn't sleep with Trip or continue the relationship because she was high; the Trell-D allowed her to run with feelings she otherwise would have repressed. In other words, it's why she started, but not why she continued.

Does she yank Trip around a bit in season 4? Sure. But in my travels, I've met lots of on-again/off-again couples - some of whom are together today, and some who eventually went their separate ways. And T'Pol has no experience in relationships, at least the way humans relate to each other. No wonder her course is zig-zaggy.

So, my opinion about Trip and T'Pol? It's fine, whatever. This isn't the Romance Of The Century!! but it's not an abomination, either. I probably would've preferred for everyone to keep their pants on during the mission - but that's just me. I don't gouge my eyes out when they're on screen together, but I'm not going to read TGTMD and its sequels (the premise is ridiculous to me), or any other fan fiction whose sole purpose is to recreate the Greatest Love Story Ever Told, either.