The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Film #3
- Thread starter Mutara Nebula 1967
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Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
I never had a problem with Ripley sleeping with Clemens. One of the few things that DIDN'T bother me about that movie. But sleeping with an Alien?! Sex with an alien creature you've despised for so long, may not even be sexually compatible with, and who almost certainly would tear you apart afterwards if the act itself did not, assuming you weren't needed for other reasons(!) ....Come to think of it, that actually makes a little bit of sense.
Regardless, I'm glad it was left out in favor of her roll in the hay with Clemens.
Same thing that was done with the Terminator franchise, resulting in another third film that isn't as highly regarded by the fans as its predecessors are. Apparently, James Cameron isn't allowed to film happy endings. Not as much on the "family" angle with Terminator 2, of course, since the good T-800 had to be destroyed along with the T-1000.
I never had a problem with Ripley sleeping with Clemens. One of the few things that DIDN'T bother me about that movie. But sleeping with an Alien?! Sex with an alien creature you've despised for so long, may not even be sexually compatible with, and who almost certainly would tear you apart afterwards if the act itself did not, assuming you weren't needed for other reasons(!) ....Come to think of it, that actually makes a little bit of sense.
Regardless, I'm glad it was left out in favor of her roll in the hay with Clemens.Same thing that was done with the Terminator franchise, resulting in another third film that isn't as highly regarded by the fans as its predecessors are. Apparently, James Cameron isn't allowed to film happy endings. Not as much on the "family" angle with Terminator 2, of course, since the good T-800 had to be destroyed along with the T-1000.
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Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
Well, to be honest T3 was just reaffirming the message of T1, so it was more "correcting" things than anything else. Of course T1 was the best in the entire series as well, and I don't think there should've been ANY sequels but that's just me.
As for sex with an Alien, yeah I don't know what Weaver was on when she thought that up and why that thought stayed in her mind...
Well, to be honest T3 was just reaffirming the message of T1, so it was more "correcting" things than anything else. Of course T1 was the best in the entire series as well, and I don't think there should've been ANY sequels but that's just me.
As for sex with an Alien, yeah I don't know what Weaver was on when she thought that up and why that thought stayed in her mind...
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
Or the supposed 5th season of Earth: Final Conflict.
This third Alien movie is as mythical a beast as the third Halloween or as some as madmen have claimed three new Star Wars movies and something called Star Trek V. These things simply do not exist those who claim otherwise are insane.
Or the supposed 5th season of Earth: Final Conflict.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
I don't see how it could be "correcting" anything considering Cameron directed both films. It was his creation and presumably, he took it in the direction that he wanted/intended.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
Well, it owes a lot to Harlan Ellison really but I do think Cameron is the type who'd easily forgo the more logical ending for a more contrived "happy" one. He had the original ending but then he decided years later he wanted a happier but more nonsensical one so he made T2.
Well, it owes a lot to Harlan Ellison really but I do think Cameron is the type who'd easily forgo the more logical ending for a more contrived "happy" one. He had the original ending but then he decided years later he wanted a happier but more nonsensical one so he made T2.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
Actually I think he probably wanted to direct a huge blockbuster and make a shit-ton of money. It is true that T1 is just about the perfect closed-loop paradox movie and T2 kind of blows that away, but T2 is a great film in it's own right - something T3, despite restoring the depressing ending, fails to do.
I don't see why, in a series of movies, they all have to have similar endings - wouldn't that get a bit boring? Making a second film have a happier ending than the first one isn't a betrayal of any kind - it's just telling a different story within the same universe.
Also, Harlan Ellison really needs to shut the hell up - he seems to think that he invented time travel. Stories are often similar, and they are often inspired by other stories, Demon With a Glass Hand is a great story with similarities to Terminator, but for him to claim royalties is insane. And apparently he can't get justice because he came up with the absolutely BRILLIANT idea of a fucking magic talking archway that provides time-travel in a completely arbitrary way, forty-five bloody years ago. How long did he take to shit that idea out? (Note - I absolutely love City On The Edge of Forever - but the reasons for that have nothing to do with the silly magic time doorway and everything to do with things that weren't in Ellison's original, unfilmable, script)
Actually I think he probably wanted to direct a huge blockbuster and make a shit-ton of money. It is true that T1 is just about the perfect closed-loop paradox movie and T2 kind of blows that away, but T2 is a great film in it's own right - something T3, despite restoring the depressing ending, fails to do.
I don't see why, in a series of movies, they all have to have similar endings - wouldn't that get a bit boring? Making a second film have a happier ending than the first one isn't a betrayal of any kind - it's just telling a different story within the same universe.
Also, Harlan Ellison really needs to shut the hell up - he seems to think that he invented time travel. Stories are often similar, and they are often inspired by other stories, Demon With a Glass Hand is a great story with similarities to Terminator, but for him to claim royalties is insane. And apparently he can't get justice because he came up with the absolutely BRILLIANT idea of a fucking magic talking archway that provides time-travel in a completely arbitrary way, forty-five bloody years ago. How long did he take to shit that idea out? (Note - I absolutely love City On The Edge of Forever - but the reasons for that have nothing to do with the silly magic time doorway and everything to do with things that weren't in Ellison's original, unfilmable, script)
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
^Oh that Ellison, he is a wild-card!
^Oh that Ellison, he is a wild-card!
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
Yes, and similarly, Aliens, while having a somewhat although not completely different "tone" from the original Alien (which is perfectly valid for a sequel), ended up being one of the most exciting and memorable action oriented science fiction movies ever made. On the other hand, Alien 3 is easily and best forgotten about.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
Exactly - in Alien she barely escapes. In Aliens she is able to confront her fear and win, eventually - it's an arc - I don't think the main character should be running on the spot, doomed never to win, just because of how the first movie ended.
Exactly - in Alien she barely escapes. In Aliens she is able to confront her fear and win, eventually - it's an arc - I don't think the main character should be running on the spot, doomed never to win, just because of how the first movie ended.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
Perhaps we should look at it this way: In Aliens, she wins against the aliens. In Alien 3, she defeats the alien again. What she failed to do is win against Weyland-Yutani.
Perhaps we should look at it this way: In Aliens, she wins against the aliens. In Alien 3, she defeats the alien again. What she failed to do is win against Weyland-Yutani.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
Sure - that works pretty well (although the film sadly remains lacklustre), but it in no way "corrects" anything about Aliens, which was legitimately brilliant, happy(ish) ending, and all.
Sure - that works pretty well (although the film sadly remains lacklustre), but it in no way "corrects" anything about Aliens, which was legitimately brilliant, happy(ish) ending, and all.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
Aliens is just the movie "Them!" only set on another planet. And the action/effects aren't even that good when you study it close enough (especially that silly elephant noise they gave the Aliens) while the characters are all either stereotypes or hams. A3 is the ultimate ballsy movie Hollywood made, it totally gives the finger to regular Hollywood conventions and denies the happy ending. It still makes me laugh whenever anyone talks about "we should forget Alien 3".
Aliens is just the movie "Them!" only set on another planet. And the action/effects aren't even that good when you study it close enough (especially that silly elephant noise they gave the Aliens) while the characters are all either stereotypes or hams. A3 is the ultimate ballsy movie Hollywood made, it totally gives the finger to regular Hollywood conventions and denies the happy ending. It still makes me laugh whenever anyone talks about "we should forget Alien 3".
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
I know you are the resident Alien 3 champion around these parts, and I salute you for that, but we are all capable of forming our own opinions on what we like and what we don't. Sure, Alien 3 took a lot of chances with the franchise, but that doesn't in and of itself make it entertaining or good.
You go on enjoying it enough for the rest of us, but I will continue to ignore it and consider Aliens the fitting and deserving end to Ripley's story.
You can find flaws with anything if you study it close enough. It's hard for me to think of a more exciting end to a movie than the fight between the Alien Queen and Ripley in the load lifter. That movie will go down in history as a classic. Alien 3, not so much.
I know you are the resident Alien 3 champion around these parts, and I salute you for that, but we are all capable of forming our own opinions on what we like and what we don't. Sure, Alien 3 took a lot of chances with the franchise, but that doesn't in and of itself make it entertaining or good.
You go on enjoying it enough for the rest of us, but I will continue to ignore it and consider Aliens the fitting and deserving end to Ripley's story.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
I don't believe in dark series having a "Off into the Sunset" ending, so I'm satisfied with Ripley destroying the Alien but in the process destroying herself as well. I think that's way more fitting than "Mommy!".
As for exciting ends, it just stinks of video game. Player vs the predictable final boss.
Going down in history? As an action piece yes, but better analysis of the plot will prevent it from being anything more than a good action film.
Plenty of people beyond me will (and do) enjoy this film, you can ignore it and see the typical Hollywood end as the end if you will but it won't change that Aliens was NOT the end.
I don't believe in dark series having a "Off into the Sunset" ending, so I'm satisfied with Ripley destroying the Alien but in the process destroying herself as well. I think that's way more fitting than "Mommy!".
As for exciting ends, it just stinks of video game. Player vs the predictable final boss.
Going down in history? As an action piece yes, but better analysis of the plot will prevent it from being anything more than a good action film.
Plenty of people beyond me will (and do) enjoy this film, you can ignore it and see the typical Hollywood end as the end if you will but it won't change that Aliens was NOT the end.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
In terms of plot, I think Aliens is head and shoulders above Alien 3 in terms of making sense and audience emotional investment. Again, why should anyone even care about a bunch of vile rapists and the like getting killed by the monster? And by that point, even Ripley might as well die because everything she fought for was taken from her in the opening credits of the film. And indeed, that ends up being her fate, but who wants to watch a beloved character go through that for two hours? It's not entertaining and it's not cathartic.
I realize of course that there are people that like Alien 3, but then, this isn't really a thread intended for them.
Except you're using the ends to justify the means. It wasn't a "dark series" until Alien 3 tried to steer it back in that direction. Also, I think you are trying to criticize Aliens for some of the action film clichés that it helped to create in the first place.
In terms of plot, I think Aliens is head and shoulders above Alien 3 in terms of making sense and audience emotional investment. Again, why should anyone even care about a bunch of vile rapists and the like getting killed by the monster? And by that point, even Ripley might as well die because everything she fought for was taken from her in the opening credits of the film. And indeed, that ends up being her fate, but who wants to watch a beloved character go through that for two hours? It's not entertaining and it's not cathartic.
I realize of course that there are people that like Alien 3, but then, this isn't really a thread intended for them.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
Alien was always a dark series, it's about a humanity so corrupt and wrapped in greed that deep space travel has been utterly commercialized to the point that when the Nostromo crew found the first evidence of an Alien race they only thought about the money from salvage, a Company that willfully sent them out there because it would've been less expensive to sacrifice them than to send a real investigation team, and a creature that lives by using other living thinking beings as incubators that they kill upon birth.
If that isn't dark, then I don't know what is.
A3 just took it to the logical conclusion.
Aliens didn't invent that many cliches: The lost little girl? Done back in the 50s. The Space Marines? Done in literature. The big Alien that gives the others orders? That sort of idea's been around way longer than the 80s. The only real thing was Ripley the Warrior Mama and that was more ham than anything else.
As for A3 "not making sense", the only thing that is a mystery is the egg and even that is explainable when you consider that the Queen doesn't need the sac to lay eggs.
The "rapist" argument. That's hollow, only two of them were confirmed rapists, one of which was the most heroic character after Ripley and the other one heroically sacrificing his life to save all the prisoners AND Ripley. The rest were left just as random criminals who had already served their time and were just living there of their own volition. I'm not going to get any deeper than that because I've had this argument 100+ times already with A3-haters already. Who wants to watch a character suffer and decide to fight on despite pain and loss? A lot of people apparently, otherwise we wouldn't have dark drama at all. It's entertaining when you have the stomach for it.
Alien was always a dark series, it's about a humanity so corrupt and wrapped in greed that deep space travel has been utterly commercialized to the point that when the Nostromo crew found the first evidence of an Alien race they only thought about the money from salvage, a Company that willfully sent them out there because it would've been less expensive to sacrifice them than to send a real investigation team, and a creature that lives by using other living thinking beings as incubators that they kill upon birth.
If that isn't dark, then I don't know what is.
A3 just took it to the logical conclusion.
Aliens didn't invent that many cliches: The lost little girl? Done back in the 50s. The Space Marines? Done in literature. The big Alien that gives the others orders? That sort of idea's been around way longer than the 80s. The only real thing was Ripley the Warrior Mama and that was more ham than anything else.
As for A3 "not making sense", the only thing that is a mystery is the egg and even that is explainable when you consider that the Queen doesn't need the sac to lay eggs.
The "rapist" argument. That's hollow, only two of them were confirmed rapists, one of which was the most heroic character after Ripley and the other one heroically sacrificing his life to save all the prisoners AND Ripley. The rest were left just as random criminals who had already served their time and were just living there of their own volition. I'm not going to get any deeper than that because I've had this argument 100+ times already with A3-haters already. Who wants to watch a character suffer and decide to fight on despite pain and loss? A lot of people apparently, otherwise we wouldn't have dark drama at all. It's entertaining when you have the stomach for it.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
^Granted, with a few exceptions, they didn't really go into what the inmates were in prison for. But there was a very strong implication that this used to be an absolutely maximum security prison where you had to have done something pretty fucked up to land here in the first place.
Still, their lack of differentiation or character development is a greater sin, cinematically.
It's also turned out some classic line deliveries, like...
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
"Game over, man! Game over!"
"I don't know who is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage."
"Get away from her, you bitch!"
Plus James Horner's score from Aliens has been reused countless times in action movie trailers for the last 2 decades.
I guess this sums up my feelings about Alien 3. It's not a good movie, but maybe it's an admirable one.
^Granted, with a few exceptions, they didn't really go into what the inmates were in prison for. But there was a very strong implication that this used to be an absolutely maximum security prison where you had to have done something pretty fucked up to land here in the first place.
Still, their lack of differentiation or character development is a greater sin, cinematically.
It's also turned out some classic line deliveries, like...
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
"Game over, man! Game over!"
"I don't know who is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage."
"Get away from her, you bitch!"
Plus James Horner's score from Aliens has been reused countless times in action movie trailers for the last 2 decades.
I guess this sums up my feelings about Alien 3. It's not a good movie, but maybe it's an admirable one.
Re: The ANTI-ALIEN 3 thread for all ALIEN franchise fans who hated Fil
For what it's worth I gave ALIEN 10/10, ALIENS 10/10, & ALIEN 3 8/10.
For what it's worth I gave ALIEN 10/10, ALIENS 10/10, & ALIEN 3 8/10.
