Could you respect a woman in the female uniform?
- Thread starter Gotham Central
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I don't judge people on the basis of what they're wearing. So yes, I'd definetely respect a woman in the miniskirt uniform. I'd also respect the guy in the skant from TNG. In many cultures and countries, it's perfectly normal for men to wear skirts, even today.
I do believe 'womens lib' was what inspired women of the 60s to wear clothing that was socially unacceptable. Mini-skirts got you kicked out of school. You couldn't wear it to work, etc. Women who did were considered whores. But by the late 60s, sure, it was starting to be less shocking to the 'Mad Men' public. Sure, it became fashion and Star Trek was a part of the mainstreaming of it into mere fashion, but that wasn't why women started wearing them. Certainly bra burning (a dubious idea, I'm sure!) was also about women's liberation. Such was the times, as far as I know.
The early to mid 60s were incredibly conservative. The rule in school was, above the knee... you're out! Haven't you ever heard of this?
The fact such things are soon swallowed by the mainstream consumer culture as fashion is typical. Such things are always taken up by corporations to sell whatever is popular. I feel this is why you miss the social political beginnings of such things and only see them as normalized mainstream culture.
Therin of Andor's post earlier demonstrates the feminist aspect of the mini-skirt during those times well. He's always a fountain of info!
I wouldn't presume to speak for her, but I believe what JustKate is suggesting is that not all women wore miniskirts and minidresses for the same reason. While some women may have begun wearing miniskirts as a statement, it quickly passed into fashionable status and therefore other women then began wearing them to be fashionable, not to make a political statement.
I'm only 24, but I distinctly remember in middle school and high school the length of female students' shorts and skirts being an issue. It wasn't 'above the knee,' more like 'above the middle thigh.' People didn't pull out rulers or anything, but generally Daisy Dukes were out. I can remember some girls being sent home or having to change. And I can tell you for almost absolute certain the reason those girls wore short shorts and short skirts was because it was fashionable and would attract the attention of us boys.
Of course, these were juveniles, not adult women. But nonetheless, the school system set a standard for dress and expected it to be followed.
I'm only 24, but I distinctly remember in middle school and high school the length of female students' shorts and skirts being an issue. It wasn't 'above the knee,' more like 'above the middle thigh.' People didn't pull out rulers or anything, but generally Daisy Dukes were out. I can remember some girls being sent home or having to change. And I can tell you for almost absolute certain the reason those girls wore short shorts and short skirts was because it was fashionable and would attract the attention of us boys.
Of course, these were juveniles, not adult women. But nonetheless, the school system set a standard for dress and expected it to be followed.
After a while, unless you sewed your own clothes, you couldn't GET anything but a mini skirt/dress. And for a while, it was obligatory for girls to wear dresses to school, no slacks allowed.
I personally found the minis a pain. Yes, they showed off the legs and luckily mine were good back then, but I hated going up stairs, reaching up, sitting without flashing the world, etc.
I'm sure the fellows LOVED the mini-skirt/mini-dress but for this woman, they were a nuisance. When they started letting girls wear slacks in school, I went straight to blue jeans and never looked back.
I personally found the minis a pain. Yes, they showed off the legs and luckily mine were good back then, but I hated going up stairs, reaching up, sitting without flashing the world, etc.
I'm sure the fellows LOVED the mini-skirt/mini-dress but for this woman, they were a nuisance. When they started letting girls wear slacks in school, I went straight to blue jeans and never looked back.
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^^^
Heh heh. I think you're both right. It became fashion quickly. But just like anything social someone had to do it first. That it came out of a reaction to the Stepford Wife existence of decades past and championed by women activists advocating feminine sexuality. I merely wanted to impress justKate with that. Hope I didn't come off all wise-guy.
But as far as I know the mid-60s mini-skirt was very much a women's lib thing. By around the time Trek was dead on NBC the minis had already become consumed by the mainstream corporate world and thus you couldn't even buy an alternative to the mini, as T'Bonz mentioned. Happens fast. Fashion is famous for doing this at lightening speed, of course.
Heh heh. I think you're both right. It became fashion quickly. But just like anything social someone had to do it first. That it came out of a reaction to the Stepford Wife existence of decades past and championed by women activists advocating feminine sexuality. I merely wanted to impress justKate with that. Hope I didn't come off all wise-guy.
But as far as I know the mid-60s mini-skirt was very much a women's lib thing. By around the time Trek was dead on NBC the minis had already become consumed by the mainstream corporate world and thus you couldn't even buy an alternative to the mini, as T'Bonz mentioned. Happens fast. Fashion is famous for doing this at lightening speed, of course.
Did people ever obsess about whether the pattern on the kilt matches Scotty's clan affiliation?
) as far as I know.
Yes, esp. if she were sitting on my face! I'd have no choice but to respect her authority! Sorry, couldn't resist! -- RR
Nah, I was thinking more along the lines that a female senior officer would have the option of wearing a different uniform because she was simply a senior officer.To put it simply--yes, I could. IMO, maturity and professionalism is the ability to stop gawking and saying "Oooo" at people because of what they're wearing or how it fits them.
But I also believe that there was always an optional female TOS uniform that featured pants, but it was probably reserved for senior female officers above the rank of commander...
The fact that women in senior level positions had the option of pants would seen to support my position that a professional woman looking to exert her authority would not go around in something that flashed the world whenever she moved.
A different time, different social values--but what's in fashion changes quickly and what was considered indecent in one era becomes acceptable in another, IMO...
And the inevitable follow-up question - can you respect a man in this uniform?
Nope! Imagine how ridiculous Captain Picard, Commander Riker, Data or Worf would look in that variant! Esp. Worf! -- RR
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Next time, do. The women of the forum will be happier.
Heh, when I read Gotham Central's "gym shorts" comment, I thought of that same gym scene. So I'll just post this:
Stewie Griffin voice: "No big deal, just a captain walkin' thru the corridors of his starship with his oiled chest. Y'know, haaangin' out... keepin' it cool."
And the inevitable follow-up question - can you respect a man in this uniform?
I'd find it odd and perhaps humorous to see a man dressed like that, but only because I've been raised in a culture where men wearing skirts is not the norm. If I came from a culture where it was accepted, it would simply not be an issue.
My respect for someone is mostly influenced by how they behave and do their job. Their clothing has some relevance to how I perceive them, but it's hardly the defining factor.
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