Endgame as it was first intended...

[Praetor]

I'd forgotten about the bit in 'Good Shepherd' about letting them resign. I hope that wasn't a serious consideration. Maquis crewman are one thing (but I might argue they had the choice at the beginning to not 'sign up' when things seemed probably a lot worse) but Starfleet crewmen should be able to do their jobs.

 

[exodus]

I'd forgotten about the bit in 'Good Shepherd' about letting them resign. I hope that wasn't a serious consideration. Maquis crewman are one thing (but I might argue they had the choice at the beginning to not 'sign up' when things seemed probably a lot worse) but Starfleet crewmen should be able to do their jobs.

I agree as well but Janeway gave everyone an out in "the 37's" as well.

Remember when she made the offer to the entire crew that they were welcome to leave Voyager & make a life for themselves in the DQ?

 

[Praetor]

Eek, I forgot about that.

So generally, does that mean there was a constant open-door policy? Or were there only certain special opportunities?

 

[Guy Gardener]

For everyone except the Equinox 5 (And Naomi. ).

Back in the AQ, I'd assume that there is a more lengthy process for exiting starfleet with paperwork and permissions, that some one could end up serving Twenty years in the rainforests of Huntly for desertion (even for the rare occassions which the federation is at peace with its nieghbours.) if they decided to go walkabout one fine day.

Besides the term enlistment referes to a service contract, which I always assumed made the Starfleet a sort of trade school or merchant navy the bare exchange is time for education... If you resign your comission, does that mean you now have the basic rights of an enlisted person, albeit still without rank?

 

[USS Triumphant]

If you resign your comission, does that mean you now have the basic rights of an enlisted person, albeit still without rank?

Possible. But since I don't recall Captain Picard accepting Worf's resignation, and then saying, "now, go clean the toilets, crewman Worf", I don't think so.

I would imagine that you sign up for a commitment in exchange for training and such, and during that period you would be arrested for desertion if you tried to run off. After that, you can generally continue to serve, re-upping periodically, but can resign at will - except, they will expect your continued service until it is convenient for them to honor your resignation. That way you don't have people deserting or going derelict at critical times - which would still be a crime.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

I'd forgotten about the bit in 'Good Shepherd' about letting them resign. I hope that wasn't a serious consideration. Maquis crewman are one thing (but I might argue they had the choice at the beginning to not 'sign up' when things seemed probably a lot worse) but Starfleet crewmen should be able to do their jobs.

I agree as well but Janeway gave everyone an out in "the 37's" as well.

Remember when she made the offer to the entire crew that they were welcome to leave Voyager & make a life for themselves in the DQ?

Oh come on Thats like a commander saying to his marines "now, anyone who wants to puss out can puss out, I wont think any less of you for pussing out of this mission"

 

[Guy Gardener]

Janeway might have seen it as a huge victory that she didn't lose anyone, but I saw it as a huge loss that not even one of the humans on that colony thought it might be fun to sign up and go see the homeworld.

She could have, at a minimum, doubled her crew manifest that day if she had a lick of slaesmanship in her. But it seems she didn't?

 

[PhoenixIreland]

Janeway might have seen it as a huge victory that she didn't lose anyone, but I saw it as a huge loss that not even one of the humans on that colony thought it might be fun to sign up and go see the homeworld.

She could have, at a minimum, doubled her crew manifest that day if she had a lick of slaesmanship in her. But it seems she didn't?

It was their home. Imagine a human starship landed on Earth and we found out we were not the only humans, that there was a "real" homeworld out there, but it was thousands of light years away and they were not sure if they could get back, would you leave home just on the off chance?

...actually the way this planet is going personally I probably would...

 

[Praetor]

Been watching BSG, PhoenixIreland?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I think they claimed to have a population in the range of abouts a 100,000 which sounds like they shagged about as well and often as the folkes on Voyager that they could keep the population in check so easily (although consider the intense deformities from hundreds of years of inbreeding from such a narrow initial genetic stock if there were only maybe 50 breeding pairs (if they were idiots and didn't forgo monogamy.)? ) that everyone would be a first cousin to everyone else... But then considering the technology that they were beholden to even after 400 years, they might not have been able to replicate or replace too easily... Which would make these people all generation after generation of idiots that they decided to control the birth rate rather then enlarge the city.

These people were human, but in 7 years they attracted exactly two new crew they didn't have to kidnap from the Borg, allow the option to rather kill themself than serve under Janeway, betray Janeway to xenophobic massmurderers rather than shag Janeway or take on as prison labour?

You hear all sorts of stories about people working their passage across the world in boys-own adventure stories, which is only extreme hitchhiking really but how come Janeway didn't invite people to join up or agree to... Voyager acted as practically a colony vessel for those folkes on Pilgrimage in Remember, did they "pay" for passage via some method of exchange or service? Those 40 or so people being assigned light non critical duties could have given the rest of th crew a hell of a breather.

If crew fell for, fell in love, enjoyed sexing passing by aliens, how difficult would it be to allow them to sign up as crew without... Greencard was a horrible movie.

 

[Brit]

Ok Guy, you made my "what if" sense go off.

Brit

 

[PhoenixIreland]

Been watching BSG, PhoenixIreland?

Have never seen a single episode of it, Star Treks the only sci-fi I can stomach.

Though B5 was passable, based on what I've seen of it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

BSG isn't Science Fiction. It's more of a cross between Science-Porn and a cigar advert.

If Voyagers balls were soccer balls, then BSG's balls would be Phobos and Deimos in orbit of Mars.

 

[LtGodard]

Personaly i think that ditch the whole end game episode scheme .check this....

Voyager finally finds a faster than warp drive that duh duh duh da works. But the borg are after the same piece of tech . Janeway matches wits with the Borg queen , but after ensuing battle and subsequent shield failure a borg boarding party kills Kim,wounds Tuvok , and reassimilates 7 . 7 of 9 stands off with Janeway and is confronted by Kathy's humanity torn she loses it and kills a security officer. Janeway kills 7(use your own imagination) and the com springs to life the drive is ready.With the Borg cubes bearing down on them they jump .They end the Show at ds9. End it on a down note it worked for empire strikes back. I think everyone knew that they would all made it home

 

[Brit]

I don't think anyone should die and I think a "down note" isn't art or good writing. Trek isn't about reality, it's about hope for a bright future. It's like Paul Potts and now Susan Boyle on "Britain Has Talent", Trek has far more in common with "Slumdog Millionaire" than the "dark" or "real" fiction or movies that some people like.

There isn't a thing wrong with liking it dark but you should remember that there are a lot of people that don't. Trek should be Trek, not an imitation of BSG or Babylon 5. Trek isn't about dying, it's about living.

Kirk was right when he changed the parameters of the Kobayashi Maru test. I think people miss the whole point when they quote "It's how we face death." It takes a second quote from "Search for Spock" to actually get the whole idea.

"My God, Bones... what have I done?"
"What you had to do, what you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live"

Trek isn't just the illusion of happily ever after for the Trek characters, it's the illusion of HEA for us all.

Brit

 

[Frazzled]

I don't think anyone should die and I think a "down note" isn't art or good writing. Trek isn't about reality, it's about hope for a bright future. It's like Paul Potts and now Susan Boyle on "Britain Has Talent", Trek has far more in common with "Slumdog Millionaire" than the "dark" or "real" fiction or movies that some people like.

There isn't a thing wrong with liking it dark but you should remember that there are a lot of people that don't. Trek should be Trek, not an imitation of BSG or Babylon 5. Trek isn't about dying, it's about living.

Kirk was right when he changed the parameters of the Kobayashi Maru test. I think people miss the whole point when they quote "It's how we face death." It takes a second quote from "Search for Spock" to actually get the whole idea.

"My God, Bones... what have I done?"
"What you had to do, what you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live"

Trek isn't just the illusion of happily ever after for the Trek characters, it's the illusion of HEA for us all.

Brit

Amen to that Sister

 

[LtGodard]

I don't think anyone should die and I think a "down note" isn't art or good writing. Trek isn't about reality, it's about hope for a bright future. It's like Paul Potts and now Susan Boyle on "Britain Has Talent", Trek has far more in common with "Slumdog Millionaire" than the "dark" or "real" fiction or movies that some people like.

There isn't a thing wrong with liking it dark but you should remember that there are a lot of people that don't. Trek should be Trek, not an imitation of BSG or Babylon 5. Trek isn't about dying, it's about living.

Kirk was right when he changed the parameters of the Kobayashi Maru test. I think people miss the whole point when they quote "It's how we face death." It takes a second quote from "Search for Spock" to actually get the whole idea.

"My God, Bones... what have I done?"
"What you had to do, what you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live"

Trek isn't just the illusion of happily ever after for the Trek characters, it's the illusion of HEA for us all.

Brit

Amen to that Sister

Listen if you want predictable Trek thats your deal but it would kill the wrighters to break from the norm into rougher waters.Star trek is not only about the hope of humanity, but humanity in a whole. With out the death what makes life worth living. As far as ending on a down note its treks "final frontier" and exploring emoition, space, and the holodeck is what trek is about.

 

[Brit]

I don't think anyone should die and I think a "down note" isn't art or good writing. Trek isn't about reality, it's about hope for a bright future. It's like Paul Potts and now Susan Boyle on "Britain Has Talent", Trek has far more in common with "Slumdog Millionaire" than the "dark" or "real" fiction or movies that some people like.

There isn't a thing wrong with liking it dark but you should remember that there are a lot of people that don't. Trek should be Trek, not an imitation of BSG or Babylon 5. Trek isn't about dying, it's about living.

Kirk was right when he changed the parameters of the Kobayashi Maru test. I think people miss the whole point when they quote "It's how we face death." It takes a second quote from "Search for Spock" to actually get the whole idea.

"My God, Bones... what have I done?"
"What you had to do, what you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live"

Trek isn't just the illusion of happily ever after for the Trek characters, it's the illusion of HEA for us all.

Brit

Amen to that Sister

Listen if you want predictable Trek thats your deal but it would kill the wrighters to break from the norm into rougher waters.Star trek is not only about the hope of humanity, but humanity in a whole. With out the death what makes life worth living. As far as ending on a down note its treks "final frontier" and exploring emoition, space, and the holodeck is what trek is about.

No you are not right, you want something that isn't Trek to a lot of people. I don't like your interpretation. I want the illusion of Happily Ever After, and I am not alone in that. I don't want the current writers' interpretation of "rough waters". It isn't art and it's lazy writing. I don't want dead anyone period. You can have conflict without killing someone.

The thing is I know I'm not alone, just recently the "New York Times" ran an article that states, "In a recession, what people want is a happy ending." It goes so far to state that the only books that are making money or had a rise in readership last year are those with happy endings. You might not like it very much but it's true, your interpretation of what Trek should be is flat out of fashion now.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/books/08roma.html?_r=4&ref=arts&pagewanted=all

The inclusion of major character death doesn't make unpredictability, that can be just as predictable as anything else if it's used for the wrong people. You see Trek isn't just about exploration or any of the other things mentioned, it's about people. It's about people that the audience cares about.

Brit

 

[shanejayell]

What I would have liked to see was Voyager going into transwarp, destroying the hub and being spat out a decade from the Federation. They're ALMOST home but the Trek continues...

 

[Guy Gardener]

if they're a decade form the Federtion then they can get the hell out and walk. There will be hundreds of starships out that far as well as numerous human colonies... It's totally known space. The crew might want to go but there would be enough federation starfleet types in the area that would find life on what they call the frontier just a little easier if they formally requested aid and comfort from Voyager if not to put in a formal requisition through the general quarter master to assign the ship tot he area for whatever current crisis they're int he middle of.

Janeway doesn't own that ship. The Federation does and they just ket her borrow it.