Major League Baseball 2009

[Canadave]

And I dare you to go up to any Blue Jays fan and even mention the phrase "Exhibition Stadium".

Actually, I think you'll find quite a few of them. Sure it sucked and it was called the "Mistake by the Lake" for a reason, but I'll be damned if it didn't have a quirky sort of character.

As for Toronto, though, I'm willing to give them a pass on this. Rogers Centre looks pretty darn good. They put in some effort on that one. As much as such a thing could be possible, that's a multipurpose stadium done *right*. And it definitely helps that the place is relatively new. I wouldn't call it a cookie-cutter. Though I would definitely not want to stay in one of the hotel rooms that overlooks the ball field - too much isolation from the game (sure, they can see the game, but can they *hear* it?).

Of course they can. The windows can be opened.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Though I would definitely not want to stay in one of the hotel rooms that overlooks the ball field - too much isolation from the game (sure, they can see the game, but can they *hear* it?).

Of course they can. The windows can be opened.

Well, that's something, anyway.

Still wouldn't want one of those rooms though. I like to sit in the stands and eat hotdogs like everyone else. If this place has bleachers, I'm there...

 

[Canadave]

Though I would definitely not want to stay in one of the hotel rooms that overlooks the ball field - too much isolation from the game (sure, they can see the game, but can they *hear* it?).

Of course they can. The windows can be opened.

Well, that's something, anyway.

Still wouldn't want one of those rooms though. I like to sit in the stands and eat hotdogs like everyone else. If this place has bleachers, I'm there...

No bleachers, it's all seats. But the 500 level is hardly fancy, and the seats up there are dirt cheap.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But the 500 level is hardly fancy, and the seats up there are dirt cheap.

Can you still get a decent view from that far up?

 

[SmoothieX]

Obama needs to pass the "No Runner Left Behind" act to help this sorry bunch out.

Just catching up to some old posts and saw Deadpool's gem. That's too funny. It seems they leave 15 men on base every game.

I'm less worried about the lack of timely hitting at this point than the starting rotation. Beyond Santana, its suspect. Livan Hernandez is their second best starter. At least they have him holding things up in the #5 role.

Maine doesn't look right, Ollie looks like Ollie, and Pelfrey hasn't shown the talent he showed at times last year.

It's great that they are lights out from the 7th inning on, but if they don't have the pitching to get them that far it doesn't matter.

 

[Canadave]

But the 500 level is hardly fancy, and the seats up there are dirt cheap.

Can you still get a decent view from that far up?

Yeah, it's actually pretty good. The seats are very steeply raked, so you end up with kind of a God's-eye view of the field.

This write-up has some good shots of the view from up there, and is actually a pretty good overview of the stadium overall. It's spot-on in that it's definitely not perfect, but it is a unique and well-designed stadium. And plus, it's a pretty incredible experience if you ever happen to be in there when they close the roof.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Hugh Douglas of the Philadelphia Eagles would disagree:

"I love the Vet. I'm serious - the roaches and the rats. That place is real, man. That's ghetto. And ghetto is good in football."

I disagree. And so would the 49ers... Linky

You disagree with Hugh Douglas? Pretty gutsy, man, pretty gutsy.

How much clamor is there for a new stadium in Oakland, anyway?

By the team? Plenty. And if the team wants a new ballpark, they should get one. Simple as that.

Are the players on the team going to pay for it? Do they get their money back if they get traded before it gets finished?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But the 500 level is hardly fancy, and the seats up there are dirt cheap.

Can you still get a decent view from that far up?

Yeah, it's actually pretty good. The seats are very steeply raked, so you end up with kind of a God's-eye view of the field.

This write-up has some good shots of the view from up there, and is actually a pretty good overview of the stadium overall. It's spot-on in that it's definitely not perfect, but it is a unique and well-designed stadium. And plus, it's a pretty incredible experience if you ever happen to be in there when they close the roof.

Sounds pretty cool. The stadium looked pretty good during the World Baseball Classic. Although the field itself looked a bit dodgy...

You disagree with Hugh Douglas? Pretty gutsy, man, pretty gutsy.

I'm sure Terrell Owens would agree...

But like I said, sometimes 'ghetto' just doesn't cut it. Remember what I said about the 49ers. The Stick is practically falling apart around them. There's gonna be a tipping point beyond which it stops being simply 'ghetto' and starts being dangerous.

I mean, I've heard talk of coaches pulling their teams off the field at the Vet because of how shitty it was (ask any Ravens fan what happened on August 13, 2001. Linky ), and even players being hurt because of it...

Are the players on the team going to pay for it? Do they get their money back if they get traded before it gets finished?

The Giants managed to get AT&T Park built with entirely private financing. Perhaps the A's might one day do the same. There are always possibilities.

Think of it this way. Have you been to the Coliseum? If so, would you say it's a decent place to play baseball?

 

[Timby]

Are the players on the team going to pay for it? Do they get their money back if they get traded before it gets finished?

The Giants managed to get AT&T Park built with entirely private financing. Perhaps the A's can do the same.

Rather hypocritical of you, considering that you're apparently entirely in favor of mind-boggling amounts of public financing for the Marlins' new stadium.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I didn't say anything about funding in that post you quoted.

 

[Timby]

^ I didn't say anything about funding in that post you quoted.

Right, you were simply talking about how you were entirely in favor of a city government vote that was with regard to the aforementioned insane amounts of public financing. Try again.

In any event, it's highly unlikely that we'll see the A's or any other team make a move towards private funding for stadiums anytime soon, not after Bud Selig and his inner circle blacklisted Peter Magowan when he did an end-run around Selig's efforts to hold a gun to the City of San Francisco's head.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Whatever. The ballparks are getting built. That's the important thing. Even with any public financing they might require, they will also bring in new jobs in the process. The teams - and fans - get better ballparks. And with increased attendance, even more is pumped into the local economy. I'm prepared to call it even.

 

[Timby]

Whatever. The ballparks are getting built. That's the important thing.

Fair enough. Then again, I consider the financial solvency of city and state governments to be far more important than billion-dollar complexes meant for playing a game. I don't see the construction of a stadium as a life-or-death matter, as you apparently do.

I mean, shit, I'll be the first to say that the Chicago Cubs need to move out of Wrigley and into a stadium with a larger seating capacity, a better visitors' clubhouse, etc., but if the money isn't there to do so privately, then that's just tough rocks for all involved. Heck, the City of Dubuque, Iowa, was in negotiations with the owner of the Battle Creek Yankees to bring the team to this city, but owner Michael Gartner insisted that the City pay $6 million (nearly half the total costs) for the stadium -- and refused to sign an agreement promising that he would keep the team in town for at least five years. Voters, remembering that the City had been operating at a significant deficit for several years and had mounting debt, rejected the referendum by a nearly 70 / 30 margin. (And, coincidentally, Gartner sold the team a year later.)

I'm a pretty left-leaning guy, but when it comes to stuff like this, Bud Selig's efforts towards stadium socialism is just unconscionable. Governments shouldn't be sponsoring baseball, nor should they be plunging themselves further into debt because of it. (I can't wait for New York City taxpayers to feel the hit of the Mets' and Yankees' new parks.)

 

[Alidar Jarok]

But like I said, sometimes 'ghetto' just doesn't cut it. Remember what I said about the 49ers. The Stick is practically falling apart around them. There's gonna be a tipping point beyond which it stops being simply 'ghetto' and starts being dangerous.

You said cookie cutters didn't have character. That was the only thing I was disagreeing with.

I mean, I've heard talk of coaches pulling their teams off the field at the Vet because of how shitty it was (ask any Ravens fan what happened on August 13, 2001. Linky ), and even players being hurt because of it...

Yeah, which is why they had to get rid of it (and the city wanted to make lots of money by putting a baseball stadium in center city that ended up not happening because - wait, what are we talking about?). I had no problem getting rid of the Vet. It was definitely time. Doesn't mean every city automatically has to get a new stadium just because their old one is crappy. Economics do play a factor.

Are the players on the team going to pay for it? Do they get their money back if they get traded before it gets finished?

The Giants managed to get AT&T Park built with entirely private financing. Perhaps the A's might one day do the same. There are always possibilities.

If they get the money, more power to them. Still, until they do, there's no point in getting pissed off (unless you want to send them some money to get them started on their cause).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You said cookie cutters didn't have character. That was the only thing I was disagreeing with.

Okay, cool. But how about this: The stadiums themselves had no character...so the fans had to make their own.

If they get the money, more power to them. Still, until they do, there's no point in getting pissed off (unless you want to send them some money to get them started on their cause).

Agreed. Still, though, until that day comes, we can always dream. Especially for Rays fans who want this.

JKTim, interesting that you should mention Wrigley Field. Are you a Cubs fan? Do you think Wrigley's historical value isn't enough? I have been curious about that as well. I'm wondering what percentage of Cubs fans would actually want Wrigley to be replaced - at what point does such a massively historical ballpark just become impossible to continue to use? Same goes for the Red Sox. Would there come a time when even they could want a replacement for Fenway? I wonder what could happen to make them want that.

(I did hear that Carlos Zambrano was so floored when he first set foot in new Yankee Stadium that he now wants Wrigley to be replaced...)

 

[Timby]

I'm a lifelong Cubs fan, and I've been to well over a hundred games at Wrigley Field. I love that park. I do believe, however, that Wrigley is an aging dinosaur, and you can only make so many improvements to a structure before it needs to be replaced. Now, there are a bunch of miserable assholes who will cling to Wrigley Field until the demo crews take the last brick from their desperately clutching paws, and there are jackasses like Rich Morrissey who over-romanticize the field. Good for them. Really, the only difference between Wrigley Field and Miller Park is that you can fit more Cub fans in Miller. Of course, that's a pretty significant difference, considering the revenue streams. There are plenty of good arguments for finally building a new stadium for the Cubs.

But I'd much rather see the City of Chicago pour those millions of dollars into overhauling and reforming its education system. I'm sure I wouldn't be alone in that, between the downstate politicians who might think the state spending money on another stadium in Chicago is misguided, or the South Side politicians whose constituents won't feel too keen on funding anything for the Cubs, or the fiscal conservatives, or the liberals who want to build up social services, or the the realists who might not be opposed to building this but also realize that THE STATE IS BROKE and THE CITY IS ALREADY COMMITTED TO SPENDING BILLIONS ON THE OLYMPICS.

Anyway, it's not like the Cubs will ever move to some hellhole like Gary, Indiana. (Much like the Yankees. What did the city government think the team would do if the City didn't find a few extra hundred million bucks for the new park? Move?) And if they do ... well, I'll just go to fewer games, then. It's not like the Cubs will ever have trouble selling tickets in a metroland of nine million people.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Is it true that naming rights for Wrigley have been sold? To who?

 

[Timby]

Wrigley Field's naming rights remain intact.

 

[SmoothieX]

So uh, I hear there were some games played last night.

 

[Deadpool]

Obama needs to pass the "No Runner Left Behind" act to help this sorry bunch out.

Just catching up to some old posts and saw Deadpool's gem. That's too funny. It seems they leave 15 men on base every game.

I'm less worried about the lack of timely hitting at this point than the starting rotation. Beyond Santana, its suspect. Livan Hernandez is their second best starter. At least they have him holding things up in the #5 role.

Maine doesn't look right, Ollie looks like Ollie, and Pelfrey hasn't shown the talent he showed at times last year.

It's great that they are lights out from the 7th inning on, but if they don't have the pitching to get them that far it doesn't matter.

I`m not worried about Big Pelf. He missed a start due to some tendonitis and declared himself ready so hopefully he makes it more than 5 innings next start. Maine has lookgood at times and hopefully he can get better as the weather heats up. If worse comes to worse, Omar will just unload the farm for a Roy (Oswalt or Halladay) since ownership gave him permission to raise the payroll. I have faith in the pitching once the weather heats up.

As for the offense thats a different story. It would be great if Beltran learns to slide and it would be nice if David can cut down on his strike outs. The NY LOBsters had a 2 out rbi last night which was good to see. I kinda wish we can finish Philly already, because nothing can help out the bats better than playing in a bandbox against shitty starting pitching.

BTW Johan is God and historically is a better second half pitcher. If he maintains his current level and then gets better in the second half, we can have a Pedro in his prime type year.