World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

[nordmoon]

With only 10,000 Vulcans left in the entire universe, I'd say the odds are very slim that any Vulcans from future series would be born, as both parents would need to have survived and be in a position to get together!

Only 10'000 vulcans? Where did you get that number from?

I can't believe that this will be the end for the Vulcan. I must believe that they will survive even if they are less now.

Everyone will go like "Vulcans? Who are they?" or "Oh, they are the ones that lost their planet?"

I wonder what kind of impact the vulcan's had on the future to come and I guess that could be explored in future? Perhaps we will have a world more like Star Wars.. ! Oh well!

How did the old Spock react when Vulcan was destroyed? Did he reveal his true identity to the younger Spock and explained what has happened and what kind of impact it will have?

 

[nordmoon]

You don't know that. Tuvok could still be born.

If he's lucky, maybe. When Vulcan is destroyed, he hasn't yet been born.

You have to remember this is a different timeline. Tuvok is alive and well in the other timeline. A lot of people we know may not be born in this timeline, or if they are, not follow the paths they did in the other one.
This is not an altered future. This is ANOTHER future. Hell, maybe Picard isn't even born.

Yes, i do understand that and thank god for that. I don't mind that they explore another timeline..

 

[FarDreaming]

Rather than a shift into strict repression, I would rather see these events result in a more even handed approach to emotion, not just by Spock, but by those Vulcans that remain. A re-evaluation of what is important to their new society, for it will be a new one. A clearer view of emotion as something that needs to be controlled, but not denied. If this great tragedy is to mean anything, it has to show a society that has picked up the pieces and made those pieces matter.

That's a well-stated way of saying whether they meant to or not, they opened up a can of worms by destroying Vulcan. This isn't a one movie issue. It's a big thing.
I wonder if Orci and Kurtzman were thinking beyond this movie when they did it? I don't mean that sarcastically. What I mean is if they gave thought to exactly what you say above. And, as I said above, if they gave any thought to what that may mean to the balance in the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship we've come to respect and be entertained by.

It could be, pardon the expression, a fascinating trip in rebuilding a culture from the group up or rebuilding friendships from a whole new and deeper level. But whether Orci and Kurtzman did it for anything other than a shock effect, I guess we will have to see. I would certainly be saddened if that were the case, but not surprised unfortunately.

 

[Franklin]

If he's lucky, maybe. When Vulcan is destroyed, he hasn't yet been born.

You have to remember this is a different timeline. Tuvok is alive and well in the other timeline. A lot of people we know may not be born in this timeline, or if they are, not follow the paths they did in the other one.
This is not an altered future. This is ANOTHER future. Hell, maybe Picard isn't even born.

Yes, i do understand that and thank god for that. I don't mind that they explore another timeline..

Me, either. I'm not 100% cool with it, but what the hell.

Further, we should not just target fixate on Vulcan and Kirk's altered life. Nero destroyed 47 Klingon ships. That has to have an effect. What if young Kang or Koloth (or both) were aboard one of those ships? (Not that the movie says so, but let's pretend one or both were.)

I guess Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzman are paying homage to the Trek that's come before by making this new timeline (and new adventures) depend on the prior existence of the familiar one. Something new without erasing the past.
It even applies metaphorically, because they wouldn't even be telling this story without the five TV series and ten movies that preceeded it over more than forty years. One can't ignore that.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm pretty sure that the next movie will be about Kirk and Spock and the rest of them having some great dramatic adventure on the Enterprise. The Vulcans might get mentioned, or not. Spock and McCoy will certainly be sniping and getting on one another's nerves, though.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I think it's ironic that many of the folks who hated Enterprise are very excited about a film based on the single worst part of Enterprise: all the time travel.

I couldn't stand Enterprise, but it wasn't just because of the time travel. I gave it a good five or six episodes, buty every one was the same Berman/Braga crap.

As far as the new film, I'm excited because they're attempting real Star Trek again, with Kirk and Spock. I could do without the time travel, but I'll give it a chance, just as I did with Enterprise. Were it up to me, time travel wouldn't be a part of this film, and I would unapologetically reboot everything.

 

[FarDreaming]

With only 10,000 Vulcans left in the entire universe, I'd say the odds are very slim that any Vulcans from future series would be born, as both parents would need to have survived and be in a position to get together!

Only 10'000 vulcans? Where did you get that number from?

The 10,000 number was one that was posted on this list as a spoiler-- probably a couple hundred posts ago!

 

[Hober Mallow]

I could give a DAMN how alternate this timeline is! It's the only one we're ever gonna see onscreen, and in it, a lot of people have died who otherwise did not. Tuvok possibly included. Are you seriously telling me that doesn't bother you?

"Tuvok" is a character from a Rick Berman series called Voyager. He has nothing to do with the show called Star Trek, which this movie is based off of. So no, I don't care.

 

[controlfreak]

This film is looking good.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I have a question. Does Nero play the fiddle while Vulcan burns?

 

[M'Sharak]

If he's lucky, maybe. When Vulcan is destroyed, he hasn't yet been born.

You have to remember this is a different timeline. Tuvok is alive and well in the other timeline.

Which we will never see again, at least outside of the novels. So what's the point?

A lot of people we know may not be born in this timeline, or if they are, not follow the paths they did in the other one.
This is not an altered future. This is ANOTHER future. Hell, maybe Picard isn't even born.

I could give a DAMN how alternate this timeline is! It's the only one we're ever gonna see onscreen, and in it, a lot of people have died who otherwise did not. Tuvok possibly included. Are you seriously telling me that doesn't bother you?

Franklin has been quite articulate and well-reasoned in laying out the concerns he has with this movie, both in past threads and in several previous posts in this thread; please go back and read them now. What I do not want to see, Baba, is you teeing off on Franklin (or on anyone else here) as an excuse for going on one of your famous multi-page freakouts. Get a grip and approach the discussion reasonably, or get off the computer and go get some fresh air and perspective -- your choice.

 

[ClayHefner]

I have a question. Does Nero play the fiddle while Vulcan burns?

 

[Neopeius]

When Kirk & McCoy first meet aboard the shuttle, McCoy has a long ass monologue about all the dangers of space & how easy it is to die in it. Kirk makes the comment that Starfleet operates in outer space. McCoy says that his ex-wife got the whole damned planet in the divorce, and all he, McCoy, has left is his bones.

And, thus, the nickname is born.

This is a joke, right? That has to be the most retarded, least necessary explanation for his name *ever*.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Well, this will certainly throw a wrench into what could happen in an Abramsverse Voyager, since obviously Tuvok can never be born now that Vulcan is destroyed.

You don't know that. Tuvok could still be born.

If he's lucky, maybe. When Vulcan is destroyed, he hasn't yet been born.

True, he wasn't born on Vulcan proper (his actual birthplace was the 'Vulcanis Lunar Colony', whatever the hell that means, since Vulcan has no moon), but what if his parents were on Vulcan when it was destroyed? Can't be born then.

Sorry to say, but that's crazy talk. You are using real life logic to a fictional story. You are right, obviously: the statistical probability is extremely unfavorables. But your are also really wrong: whether Tuvok, or T'Pring, or any other Vulcan character lived would not depend on statistical probability, but whether the creators think they want to include them in future narratives. That's what it's all about: narrative. This movie could be a good story, or a bad story. But at least it would not be an old story, and that's a good thing in my book.

 

[Naldo]

You know it's funny. I've been big on: "what's everyone so worried about, stop nit-picking about canon, just enjoy the movie for what it is".

Vulcan being destroyed and only a handful of Vulcans left in the Trek universe, however, just kind of makes a sour hole in my stomach.

Right or wrong, I always viewed Vulcan and Earth as sort of the leaders of the UFP.

Having Kirk know how to drive a stick is one thing, Scotty and Chekovs ages being different, again no big deal. Vulcan destroyed before the 5 year mission. Will there be a 5 year mission?

Whereas in the previous timeline Vulcans were the wiser, more experienced uncle to Earth, this move puts them in a subservient position to just about every other UFP member and dramatically changes the character/relationship dynamic that's at the core of Trek.

I'm still very anxious to see the movie, I'm hoping I'll love it, I have a feeling I will, but damn J.J., destroying Vulcan, that's a big giant boot to leave up the ass of the collective trekfandom.

 

[RJDiogenes]

If you buy into what I consider to be the bane of modern entertainment, namely, the idea that to be entertaining you need to be shocking, edgy, or push the envelope in some way. People don't just tell good stories anymore. They always have to get some artificial kick by adding some sort of bombshell. Far from making a good story, it's just serves as an excuse to be lazy about the story, because the big kicker will make it good.

Yup, that pretty much sums up Generation nuBSG.

Yeah because The Sopranos, Weeds, The Wire, The Shield, Breaking Bad, Deadwood, Damages, Mad Man, Saving Grace and all those other "shocking, edgy and envelope pushing shows" don't tell any good stories. Jesus.

What's your definition of a "good story"? I'm guessing something along the lines of The A-Team or BJ and The Bear?

Worst guesser ever.

 

[Supervisor 194]

I get where you are coming from, Naldo, but how important was Vulcan to TOS really? There are a handful of episodes that would have to play out at least somewhat differently, but Vulcan just isn't that essential to TOS. As far as the other shows are concerned, it would be madness to make decisions for Kirk and Spock stories based on how the outcome would affect 'the franchise'.

 

[Naldo]

I get where you are coming from, Naldo, but how important was Vulcan to TOS really? There are a handful of episodes that would have to play out at least somewhat differently, but Vulcan just isn't that essential to TOS. As far as the other shows are concerned, it would be madness to make decisions for Kirk and Spock stories based on how the outcome would affect 'the franchise'.

Oh I think you're right, absolutely, when it comes right down to it.

It's sort of like (and I know this is a stretch) but imagine The Wizard of Oz being remade except Auntie Em is the Wicked Witch. Poor analogy I know but the emotional dynamic in the story would be changed drastically.

But hey, you know, I'm all ready for something completely new. I don't want to see updated versions of the same old (wonderful) stories.

And thinking about future movies/series, this could be just the kick and alteration that the characters/trek universe needs.

Can't wait for 5/8!

 

[Franklin]

It's sort of like (and I know this is a stretch) but imagine The Wizard of Oz being remade except Auntie Em is the Wicked Witch. Poor analogy I know but the emotional dynamic in the story would be changed drastically.

Man, that'd mean Dorothy had some real issues!

 

[iamkirok]

I can't wait for this movie to come out. I think Abrams has been dropping ST references in Lost ever since it started airing. IE Jack in the shark tank is identical to Capt. Pike in the cage, and lots of other things.

The previews look amazing, I'm all for it.

For the die-hard ST TOS fan, check this out. All the song titles are Trek references.