World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

[VOODOOXI]

To those who have seen the film...Could they have gotten Shatner in?

To those of you who have seen the film. Could the writers have found a creative way to get William Shatner into the film as Kirk?

It seems to me that the writers could have found a way to get Shatner into a film about an alt timeline that jumps from era to era... Granted I have not seen the film yet and cannot really make an educated statement one way or the other, but I know there was a scene written for him that did not make the final cut.


Also, does anyone know if the scene that Bob Orci spoke about that included Shatner's version of Kirk make the novelization? That would be pretty cool.

 

[VOODOOXI]

Re: How big of a role does Leonard Nimoy have?

Sorry,

I didn't know this should go there.

 

[Skywalker]

Re: How big of a role does Leonard Nimoy have?

No worries. I'm not sure if the answer would be considered a major spoiler, but there are those of us here who would rather avoid as many as possible.

 

[Akiraprise]

Re: How big of a role does Leonard Nimoy have?

I'm going to merge both of your threads, VOODOO, with the advance screening thread stickied to the top of the forum. We're trying to keep all spoilers out of the main forum until after the regular premiere. Not going to be easy, but we're trying. Stand By.

 

[Captain X]

OT, but man, that is one ugly mug, Akiraprise.

 

[Akiraprise]

I thought it a rather appropriate av for modding this forum.

Nero doesn't look like he's had his daily dose of kicking Kirk's ass yet.

 

[Captain X]

You wouldn't like him when he's angry.

 

[RJDiogenes]

If you buy into what I consider to be the bane of modern entertainment, namely, the idea that to be entertaining you need to be shocking, edgy, or push the envelope in some way. People don't just tell good stories anymore. They always have to get some artificial kick by adding some sort of bombshell. Far from making a good story, it's just serves as an excuse to be lazy about the story, because the big kicker will make it good.

Yup, that pretty much sums up Generation nuBSG.

 

[StCoop]

If you buy into what I consider to be the bane of modern entertainment, namely, the idea that to be entertaining you need to be shocking, edgy, or push the envelope in some way. People don't just tell good stories anymore. They always have to get some artificial kick by adding some sort of bombshell. Far from making a good story, it's just serves as an excuse to be lazy about the story, because the big kicker will make it good.

Yup, that pretty much sums up Generation nuBSG.

Yeah because The Sopranos, Weeds, The Wire, The Shield, Breaking Bad, Deadwood, Damages, Mad Man, Saving Grace and all those other "shocking, edgy and envelope pushing shows" don't tell any good stories. Jesus.

What's your definition of a "good story"? I'm guessing something along the lines of The A-Team or BJ and The Bear?

 

[EJA]

Is the Constitution-class starship Kirk sees under construction in Iowa stated to be the Enterprise?

Any indication of how long Pike and Spock have served together?

Is Kirk's stepping aboard the Enterprise his first time in space (apart from his birth on the escape shuttle)?

What about Kirk's mother and the rest of his family? What happens to them?

Do we see any Klingon ships in the Kobayashi Maru simulation? Are they the familiar D7-class battlecruisers as seen in TWoK?

Is there a tribble in it?

Erm....anyone?

 

[EJA]

The Enterprise is brand new, Pike tells Spock (Pike leaves the ship at one point and puts Spock in command) not to damage her as "she's brand new".

That statement could be open to interpretation. Maybe the Ent has already been in service for a couple of years, and she's just had a brand new refit? Which sort of brings me back to my earlier question about whether the ship Kirk sees being built in Iowa is the Ent or not?

 

[Kelso]

knocking off Vulcan is a huge, gigantic item which is very hard to get past.

That's why it's brilliant.

If you buy into what I consider to be the bane of modern entertainment, namely, the idea that to be entertaining you need to be shocking, edgy, or push the envelope in some way. People don't just tell good stories anymore. They always have to get some artificial kick by adding some sort of bombshell. Far from making a good story, it's just serves as an excuse to be lazy about the story, because the big kicker will make it good.

And oddly enough, the one criticism that is constant in all the reviews so far is that the story does seem a bit lazy.

You're setting up a straw-man to support your opinion. We have no reason to believe that the destruction of Vulcan is purely for shock value or without resonance in the story.

 

[Franklin]

knocking off Vulcan is a huge, gigantic item which is very hard to get past.

That's why it's brilliant.

It's an idea. Brilliant? Eh. Novel? Yes. Shock value? Definitely.
What I don't get is how the scope of this can get fair treatment in this movie. If I'm proven wrong, sobeit.
But, whether it's "just" Alderaan in SW or Vulcan in Trek, the point is billions of people have just been killed. That's what I can't get my head around. That's a fucking lot of death. Especially when you're trying to treat everything else in the movie realistically.
How long does one grieve the loss of an ENTIRE POPULATION of a planet? When do you move on? How do you get on with your life? Can you ever be normal again? If this is going to be treated realisitically, then the character of Spock has to be changed forever. Especially considering he was in command when it happened. This man is scarred for life.

And, forget Hitler. Forget Stalin. Forget the killing fields. In Trek, forget Kodos. Nero is the new standard of mass murder and genocide. He'll be hard to equal.

The movie seems to have had an excellent reception so far. I'm really looking forward to it. It is just a story and I'll get over it. But as part of the story, I hope enough thought went into the entire implications of destroying this civilization. They certainly did up the stakes.

So, will this have a ripple effect across the Federation? Just how safe are they? What the hell good is Starfleet if an entire planet isn't safe? What happens to the surviving Vulcans? Who will want them? Destroying Vulcan as a "one-off" in this movie and then not dealing with it as part of the sequel would be cheap. The destruction of Vulcan and the aftermath is THE story of the 23rd century and should have lingering effects in any Trek treatment afterwards. You can't just do this and move on.

Once again, thanks for the rant.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

People who prefer the past - socially, politically or with reference to styles of entertainment - are welcome to live there. I remember it all pretty clearly for about half a century back, and I'll happily continue the customary human amble on into the future - a day at a time.

 

[ClayHefner]

I like it.
Wasn't it part of Wrath o' Khan's awesomeness that not only Khan was a believable character with a credible cause for seeking revenge, but also that he kinda GOT his revenge by killing Spock? If they had simply warped away in time without Spock's sacrifice that would have been kinda lame.

The same won't work again (see NEM), so such a profound change is the right way to go now.

Moreover,I believe this clear signal that evrything is open now is a great thing. So many stuff to work with in the future...
I still think some of the designs suck hard, but JJ made the right decisions that will revitalize the franchise much more than some "regular" VOY successor series could ever hope to

 

[FarDreaming]

knocking off Vulcan is a huge, gigantic item which is very hard to get past.

That's why it's brilliant.

It's an idea. Brilliant? Eh. Novel? Yes. Shock value? Definitely.
What I don't get is how the scope of this can get fair treatment in this movie. If I'm proven wrong, sobeit.
But, whether it's "just" Alderaan in SW or Vulcan in Trek, the point is billions of people have just been killed. That's what I can't get my head around. That's a fucking lot of death. Especially when you're trying to treat everything else in the movie realistically.
How long does one grieve the loss of an ENTIRE POPULATION of a planet? When do you move on? How do you get on with your life? Can you ever be normal again? If this is going to be treated realisitically, then the character of Spock has to be changed forever. Especially considering he was in command when it happened. This man is scarred for life.

And, forget Hitler. Forget Stalin. Forget the killing fields. In Trek, forget Kodos. Nero is the new standard of mass murder and genocide. He'll be hard to equal.

The movie seems to have had an excellent reception so far. I'm really looking forward to it. It is just a story and I'll get over it. But as part of the story, I hope enough thought went into the entire implications of destroying this civilization. They certainly did up the stakes.

So, will this have a ripple effect across the Federation? Just how safe are they? What the hell good is Starfleet if an entire planet isn't safe? What happens to the surviving Vulcans? Who will want them? Destroying Vulcan as a "one-off" in this movie and then not dealing with it as part of the sequel would be cheap. The destruction of Vulcan and the aftermath is THE story of the 23rd century and should have lingering effects in any Trek treatment afterwards. You can't just do this and move on.

Once again, thanks for the rant.

I think we will need to see a very different Spock after this movie-- not only has he seen the destruction of his home world, but just as he had gotten to a point where he had believed he had saved his parents, his mother slips through his safeguard at the last moment and he loses her? Can you not think that he will replay that moment over a million times thinking what he did he do wrong? These scars on this new Spock are ones that would last forever- ones that Spock Prime never had to deal with, and ones that will make him a very different character in many ways.

 

[Franklin]

I think we will need to see a very different Spock after this movie-- not only has he seen the destruction of his home world, but just as he had gotten to a point where he had believed he had saved his parents, his mother slips through his safeguard at the last moment and he loses her? Can you not think that he will replay that moment over a million times thinking what he did he do wrong? These scars on this new Spock are ones that would last forever- ones that Spock Prime never had to deal with, and ones that will make him a very different character in many ways.

That's what I'm hoping to see. That the implications of what happened are carried out realisitically. You just can't leave this in one movie. Increased stakes means an increased investment. This Spock better not be at all like the Spock we knew from here on out. Not by a longshot. Especially without his mother.

And, how can McCoy ever goad Spock and insult him after what Spock went through? The entire attitude EVERYONE has about Vulcan and Vulcans will have to change. That's kinda my point, too. Within the characters, changing Spock changes the dynamics of his relationship with Kirk and McCoy. And that relationship should've been (in my opinion) the one constant across the timelines. That relationship was Star Trek.

I'm just scared that Spock will do his grieving in the movie, and we just move on from there. No investment in the consequences.

 

[Ayelbourne]

It's an idea. Brilliant? Eh. Novel? Yes. Shock value? Definitely.
What I don't get is how the scope of this can get fair treatment in this movie. If I'm proven wrong, sobeit.
But, whether it's "just" Alderaan in SW or Vulcan in Trek, the point is billions of people have just been killed. That's what I can't get my head around. That's a fucking lot of death.

If that gives you trouble, you should never read David Mack's Destiny-books.

Spoiler: Destiny

Due to about 7000 Borgcubes laying waste to both Alpha- and Betaquadrant, 63 billion people are dead. Hundreds of worlds are severely crippled or even completely wiped out (Risa, Deneva and Khitomer to name a few).
And there is no reset button fixing any of this.

 

[EJA]

Do we know exactly how old Kirk is when he meets Pike in the bar? I heard he's supposed to be something like 25?

How do Spock and Pike interact with one another? Is there any indication they've known eachother for some time?

 

[Augustus]

It's an idea. Brilliant? Eh. Novel? Yes. Shock value? Definitely.
What I don't get is how the scope of this can get fair treatment in this movie. If I'm proven wrong, sobeit.
But, whether it's "just" Alderaan in SW or Vulcan in Trek, the point is billions of people have just been killed. That's what I can't get my head around. That's a fucking lot of death.

If that gives you trouble, you should never read David Mack's Destiny-books.

Spoiler: Destiny

Due to about 7000 Borgcubes laying waste to both Alpha- and Betaquadrant, 63 billion people are dead. Hundreds of worlds are severely crippled or even completely wiped out (Risa, Deneva and Khitomer to name a few).
And there is no reset button fixing any of this.

Wow that sounds like fun! That is infinitely more depressing than this movie