They got around that by making her an Empath,
I wish they had gone into some of the implications of Telepathy.
Conflict on T.N.G. from the inside Woo Hoo
Deanna Troi: What changes would you make
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I wish they had gone into some of the implications of Telepathy.
Conflict on T.N.G. from the inside Woo Hoo
I liked the One Piece from Farpoint
They got around that by making her an Empath,
I wish they had gone into some of the implications of Telepathy.
Conflict on T.N.G. from the inside Woo Hoo
Even an empath can violate one's privacy. What if, for instance, you wanted to handle your grief alone and didn't want someone else prying into it? Deanna would sense the emotion, even if not know the reason.
This has been running around in my head for a few weeks:
Skin of Evil Version 3 -- Season 3 or 4:
Another idea I had to rework this episode is at the being of a plot arc over several episodes. As I mentioned earlier in this topic Deanna is a FULL Telepath and Telekinetic. Actress instead of actor to play the part of Armus; the entity Armus is determined to escape her prison and decides to merge with Deanna in order to escape from this wasteland.
They become one and learn everything about each other, a few hours pass and then their new conciseness separates. Armus tries to hold on but it does not work, their conciseness switch forms. Deanna Troi’s conciseness merges with the liquid form of Armus and the conciseness of Armus enters the body of Deanna Troi. Armus comes out the worse for wear since she has become less advanced life form also as a side effect of this Armus is suffering almost total amnesia; Deanna has access to the SUM of their memories when they were merged. However Deanna’s new mind is in a state of disarray her mind is like a sea storm, she completely destroys the shuttlecraft as she exits it unable to yet properly control the strength/abilities of her new body with Armus trapped inside of her.
The away team lands on the planet and witness the fate of the shuttlecraft and this alien life form expelling a body from within it (her) about ten minutes later which of course they view as Deanna but is not. Tasha confronts the alien life form Deanna just as she is about to try and let the away team know that her mind is no longer in her body but in this alien life form, Tasha does not believe her and neither does the rest of the away team.
Deanna still somewhat disorientated by the transfer and agitated responds to Tasha’s confrontational attitude with a self preservation response combined with anger and attacks her. Deanna breaks every bone in her body and snaps her neck, Riker and Data open fire on Deanna with no visible effect the away team escapes with Armus.
Deanna reaches out with her new abilities to stop the Enterprise from leaving, as a result Picard open communication with what he thinks is an alien life form, and Dr. Crusher informs the Captain that Troi has severe amnesia; Deanna tries again to explain her predicament to Captain Picard but to no avail the Captain and the Doctor come to the conclusion that the Alien was trying to control Deanna and reached into her mind and that is why it has knowledge of her life and not because of a mind transfer. Deanna has failed again; she completely looses her temper and lashes out at the Enterprise. The ship takes moderate damage at first then serious damage (200 dead and injured combined as a result) Data devices a method to disorientate the alien, Data enacts his plan it works better than expected Alien Deanna is rendered unconscious.
The Enterprise limps away from the wasteland planet, Danna regains consciousness the depth of her situation sinks in she accidentally killed Tasha, attacked her shipmates who knows how many are dead or injured. Her body has been stolen someone else his living her life right now, she has been abandoned by her crew and she is stranded on a wasteland planet how will she escape and convince them of the truth. Will Starfleet send vessels to subdue her and contain her for transport to holding facility or some sort of status unit? Or worse yet sent to a laboratory to poked and examined for the rest of her days she thinks out loud “Am I even mortal anymore” “Is the transfer permanent !?”
Deanna becomes hysterical
The rest of the plot arc deals with Deanna learning to control her new form/body learning to become a shape-shifter so she can assume humanoid appearance to interact with people better, getting off her prison, dealing with Starfleet and tracking down the Enterprise and getting them to see the truth. Getting her life back and her body is the transfer permanent? Armus regaining her memory and impersonating Deanna Troi as well as getting of the ship at the best possible moment and trying to get Starfleet to place her old body in a kind of status unit.
Oooh, that would've been creepy! I would've watched...
People,
Some interesting ideas.
I would have made Troi a bridge officer from the beginning. It seemed in the pilot she was capable of manning a console and of using communications. Likewise, would've had her as second officer instead of Data, wear a uniform, and do additional duty as a zenopsychiatrist and first contact specialist, kind of like her fellow Betazed Tam Elbrun in Tin Man.
And I rather prefer the suggestion that Betazeds just be fully empathic rather than telepaths, and that Deanna be fully Betazed. That whole half-human thing was just a silly copy of Spock, esp. as Worf was the de facto half human, having been raised by his human foster parents.
As I recall, off topic, we never saw any telekinetic species till we met the Vorta Eris in DSN ep, The Jem'Hadar. Too bad they didn't keep that -- imagine how much more bad-ass Weyoun would've been!
Red Ranger
Some interesting ideas.
I would have made Troi a bridge officer from the beginning. It seemed in the pilot she was capable of manning a console and of using communications. Likewise, would've had her as second officer instead of Data, wear a uniform, and do additional duty as a zenopsychiatrist and first contact specialist, kind of like her fellow Betazed Tam Elbrun in Tin Man.
And I rather prefer the suggestion that Betazeds just be fully empathic rather than telepaths, and that Deanna be fully Betazed. That whole half-human thing was just a silly copy of Spock, esp. as Worf was the de facto half human, having been raised by his human foster parents.
As I recall, off topic, we never saw any telekinetic species till we met the Vorta Eris in DSN ep, The Jem'Hadar. Too bad they didn't keep that -- imagine how much more bad-ass Weyoun would've been!
Red Ranger
Agreed. There was an article in the British SF mag Dreamwatch a few years back, written by a trained counsellor, examining the way the character was (mis) used. I can't remember it all, but a few things come to mind.
Ideally, a counsellor should be there for people, but would not go up to them and tell them they need her help.
There should be more than one counsellor to see to the needs of over a thousand people.
Twice in TNG we saw recently bereaved children left on their own.
The whole business about Deanna assisting with personnel reports would be counter productive. In order to operate as a counsellor Troi would have to be seen to maintain total confidentiality. Would you want to go to someone for help, knowing that they will be determining your future career prospects?
And of course the whole psychic empathy business would be very off putting to people with privacy issues. Not to mention potentially misleading. You can experience an event, feel one one emotion, but feel something very different when talking about it later. An empath will only pick up on what you feel when you recollect.
And then we get the episode 'Tin Man' where, in an appalling breech of professional ethics Troi blurts out in front of the bridge crew that Tam Elbrun was a former patient of hers. Quite apart from the fact that Counsellors and Psychiatrists have clients, not patients, this shows a total disregard for Elbrun's right to privacy. If Troi deemed it absolutely necessary for some one to know, she should have limited the information to those who truly needed it. And even then, she should have got Elbrun's express permission first.
Ah! That bothered me so much when she said that on the bridge. It was apparent from her and Riker's reaction that she knew him- she didn't need to release such confidential information. Infact, it wasn't even important.
My preference is very close to USS Triumphant's, combined with the various folks who said "make her something besides a counselor."
I don't like the idea of her being a full telepath because...because that's either too easy (she would always know what almost everybody was thinking) or too hard (in order to maintain the drama, the writers would have to come up with all kinds of exceptions - you know, can't read other telepaths, can't read this species, can't read that species - which is tedious) or maybe even both. And then there's the "creepy" factor that Nerys Ghemor mentioned. So I thought making her an empath was a good compromise and made for good dramatic potential, and if it were up to me, I'd keep it.
But I think the whole ship's counselor thing is just lame-oh. Nothing wrong with having a ship's counselor, but a ship's counselor doesn't belong on the bridge. So to have Deanna there, she needs to have some job that legitimately puts her on the bridge, or at least gives her a place there when something big is going on. Why not first officer? Riker could be the second officer or something like that. Or maybe make Deanna some kind of on-board liaison or diplomat or negotiator or something like that (I think somebody else talked about this as well).
And yeah, keep her the heck in uniform - or if not, in something futuristically professional looking.
I loathed the Riker backstory, so I agree with Triumphant that it would be no loss to jetison it. TPTB could then, if they insisted, have begun that on-again-off-again romance thing while we watched, and without the baggage it might have made more sense. But then again, I am not a R/T fan, so no doubt I'm jaundiced.
I don't like the idea of her being a full telepath because...because that's either too easy (she would always know what almost everybody was thinking) or too hard (in order to maintain the drama, the writers would have to come up with all kinds of exceptions - you know, can't read other telepaths, can't read this species, can't read that species - which is tedious) or maybe even both. And then there's the "creepy" factor that Nerys Ghemor mentioned. So I thought making her an empath was a good compromise and made for good dramatic potential, and if it were up to me, I'd keep it.
But I think the whole ship's counselor thing is just lame-oh. Nothing wrong with having a ship's counselor, but a ship's counselor doesn't belong on the bridge. So to have Deanna there, she needs to have some job that legitimately puts her on the bridge, or at least gives her a place there when something big is going on. Why not first officer? Riker could be the second officer or something like that. Or maybe make Deanna some kind of on-board liaison or diplomat or negotiator or something like that (I think somebody else talked about this as well).
And yeah, keep her the heck in uniform - or if not, in something futuristically professional looking.
I loathed the Riker backstory, so I agree with Triumphant that it would be no loss to jetison it. TPTB could then, if they insisted, have begun that on-again-off-again romance thing while we watched, and without the baggage it might have made more sense. But then again, I am not a R/T fan, so no doubt I'm jaundiced.
I also dislike having her be a full telepath. I like the idea of Troi as a full-Betazoid empath with some telekinetic abilities. I think a regular uniform from the beginning is mandatory, and additionally I'd like her to be second officer and referred to as 'Commander' rather than 'Counselor.' I like the idea that she's there because of her training as a xenopsychologist and is an expert in first contact, but I'd also like to see her as representing the psychological health interests of the crew as part of her role as 2nd. This might allow some more interaction and conflicts with Crusher.
I think she should have also been the one handling communicatons though this might have required some shuffling/bridge redesign. Then again, perhaps she could have handled it from her small console, leaving tactical dedicated to only tactical.
I also quite like TS-1838-SWATH's suggestion of the Troi/Armus angle. I'm not sure if I (or TPTB) would have gone that far with it, but at least a temporary 'possession' and evil Troi followed by her having to live with what she'd done could have been cool.
I think she should have also been the one handling communicatons though this might have required some shuffling/bridge redesign. Then again, perhaps she could have handled it from her small console, leaving tactical dedicated to only tactical.
I also quite like TS-1838-SWATH's suggestion of the Troi/Armus angle. I'm not sure if I (or TPTB) would have gone that far with it, but at least a temporary 'possession' and evil Troi followed by her having to live with what she'd done could have been cool.
Plecostomus
Commodore
I like these ideas... Deanna was so underused.
The diplomatic/First Contact expert role seems to be the best angle for her, given that we are supposed to be Boldly Going it would help to have an expert on the subject on hand.
Telepathy, give her some but have it limited to humanoids with specific brain structures... mostly Human/Humanish but not all species. It's mostly useful when communicating with members of Humanity or very close cousins, rare would be the occasion where it can work with Serious Aliens.
Technical background... None. Just the diplomatic stuff. I'm tired of the jack-of-all-trade characters who seem to have deep insight into particle physics, nuclear engineering, and tactical operations even though they are the ship's janitor. Some cross-training would be needed but not to the extent shown on the show at times.
Having her be a fish-out-of-water in technical situations could provide some good stories, and show an avenue to grow/change her character as she struggles to qualify (for example) in flight control or basic Engineering.
The diplomatic/First Contact expert role seems to be the best angle for her, given that we are supposed to be Boldly Going it would help to have an expert on the subject on hand.
Telepathy, give her some but have it limited to humanoids with specific brain structures... mostly Human/Humanish but not all species. It's mostly useful when communicating with members of Humanity or very close cousins, rare would be the occasion where it can work with Serious Aliens.
Technical background... None. Just the diplomatic stuff. I'm tired of the jack-of-all-trade characters who seem to have deep insight into particle physics, nuclear engineering, and tactical operations even though they are the ship's janitor. Some cross-training would be needed but not to the extent shown on the show at times.
Having her be a fish-out-of-water in technical situations could provide some good stories, and show an avenue to grow/change her character as she struggles to qualify (for example) in flight control or basic Engineering.
I seem to recall (I may be misremembering something else here) that one of the original roles suggested for Troi was as a liaison with the civilians on board. If this had been used, then we have a credible reason for her participating in meetings, being on the bridge etc.
Rather than making lame "I sense hostility" comments, imagine Troi constantly challenging Picard. Not to undermine him, but to ensure he takes the civilian population into accounts in the decision making process.
Under these circumstances it might even be better if she were a civilian herself. As one of the Federations top xeno-psychologists and first contact experts, she could play a vital role in the Enterprise's mission, without being part of the chain of command.
Well Deanna was supposed to be 75% Betazoid and Spock was 50% Vulcan and a Full Telepath So that is where I got the Full Telepath idea from.
But the thing about Vulcans is that - except in the occasional somewhat tedious exception - they have to be in physical contact with the other person in order to read their thoughts. So that nicely gets around the whole "If he's a telepath, how come he didn't know that Scotty was innocent of murder?" or "If she's a telepath, how come she didn't know the guy negotiating for the wormhole was a slimeball?" or whatever.
I agree that making Deanna a full Betazed would have been a good idea. We need more regular-character aliens in Trek, IMO, and even one that looks fairly human would at least add a bit more diversity.
I agree that making Deanna a full Betazed would have been a good idea. We need more regular-character aliens in Trek, IMO, and even one that looks fairly human would at least add a bit more diversity.
That was in "The Offspring" and was a rebuttal to Picard's view that Lal couldn't be considered a child in the same way an organic being could, because she was an android with abilities like Data's.
I would have gone with one of the original ideas for the position which became Troi's counseling job - that she would have essentially been a sort of liason to Picard from the Federation, because the ship was supposed to be on the edge of the galaxy and not in as regular contact with Starfleet. This is why there were families on board to begin with, and some hints in a few episodes (the only one I can think of is "Conspiracy," where it was described as "unusual" for the ship to be returning to Earth).
Given this mission profile with the ship being more on the "edge" of explored space, the liason's job was to advise Picard and make sure he did what the Federation expected him to do in matters involving the PD or other major issues. To be their voice where his experience alone wasn't sufficient.
The reason I want her as a Telepath is so she is not always taken over by an alien force or being she will be able fight back
See Paxsons, Ulians - [Dream Coma Episode] come to mind and "Man of The People"
The wtiters may have over done the "too hard to read in order to maintain the drama, the writers would have to come up with all kinds of exceptions." But that is more interesting than "I sense your pain" or "Captain I sense deception" The exceptions would have to be kept to a small number.
Also think about the advantage of locating someone in the crew who has been Brainwashed and deprograming them!!!
, as well as search and rescue.
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Since I was only stating my opinion, and both of those things were completely subjective, I don't see where you have basis for the eyeroll. Feel free to have a different opinion - it doesn't change mine, and mine doesn't negate yours.what? she was just fine as far as both points are concerned
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