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Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST
You know, I was unhappy with how the post-NEM Enterprise-E novels where going, right up until the "Destiny" trilogy. Having something unique, original, sweeping, awesome in scope, and final - definitive - happen to the Borg... that's just worth it's weight in gold. I mean, TrekLit resolved the unresolvable Borg quandry. So now I'm very happy with things, and can see that the - seemingly disjointed direction of the first half-dozen post-NEM Enterprise-E novels was actually planned, on purpose, meant to keep things unsteady, and now... something totally unheard of has happened, that can truly bring focus without demanding a serialized story-line. It's frakking brilliant.
Forward movement is occurring. Fearful Symmetry came out a few months ago and is being concluded in The Soul Key next year. And there are plans for further movement beyond that.
While any show is on the air it's normal, often mandated, that licensed tie-ins not change the canonical status quo. TOS was really the only Star Trek story that deliberately emphasised anthology-type episodes, but even TOS referred to itself in some episodes.
I'll never understand why people tend to assume that an episodic format means that any and all continuity references are absolutely forbidden. That's not true at all. It just means that the episodes have to be understandable as self-contained stories aired in any order. That doesn't mean there can't be references to past events, it just means you can't have a continuing arc from one episode to the next. The references just need to be to episodes that aren't too recent, that would certainly have already aired. Like how "By Any Other Name" referenced the galactic barrier from "Where No Man" and Spock's jailbreak technique from "A Taste of Armageddon," both from the previous season. And ST was far from unique in this regard. Most episodic shows, not counting actual anthologies, have always had occasional sequels to previous episodes, return appearances by past guest stars, etc.
Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST
Overall, I am pleased with the direction. The TTN series has been great. The TNG relaunch has been incredibly inconsistent - I found the books to be entertaining, but I didn't like the way the Borg were handled. I found the revolving door of Enterprise-E crewmembers to be tiresome. Having said all that, I thought that Destiny was a sweeping success. I loved it all. The TNG novels were clearly building up to this. And I'm thrilled to have the Borg threat finally over once and for all. The question remains of what direction the TNG series will follow now that it's over.
I still hold the DS9 relaunch in the highest regard. This is the example of how to do it. And even though it's still stuck several years prior to the rest of the 24th century Trek lit (TNG, TTN and VOY seem to be at the same place now), I hope it continues the path of excellence.
Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who is rather ambivalent about recent treklit.(Well,glad isn't exactly what I mean,but anyway..).
TBH,I've found myself increasingly removed from the events being portrayed "onscreen",unsure of the newest TNG crew and critical of the decisions being made by characters that I once loved and trusted.(the whole thalaron thing,but lets not revisit that!)
The DS9r seems stationary(yes I know the reasons,but if one has to reread past novels to reaquaint oneself with whats going on,well somethings going wrong).
Thank the stars for Vanguard...Trek a la HBO.
Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST
The biggest thing for me is so much opportunity has finaly been realized.
The entire TNG TV and movie(TNG DS9 VOY) era had so much potential
but only skirted it. The novels since have truly become everything I would
sit and hope the characters and Universe would but the producers or writers
or some asshat sitting back all high and mighty... "That's not what Trek's about!"
keeping it from becoming more. Now the novels have been unleashed.
A warning: there may be some spoilers depending on what you've read.
I'm not thrilled with most of it.
I grew up on TNG, and have generally liked the fiction for that series. Titan has been mostly enjoyable. However, I had to force myself to get through all the new TNGs. I'm currently through Destiny #2.
I think I did so only because the Destiny epic seemed like such an important event in the Trek universe and I couldn't find a simple book spoiler page. And I felt I had to read everything TNG-R that led up to it or I'd be lost.
I did enjoy Titan more from the beginning; I like the characters and the stories, but they kept killing off characters I really like. Yeah, yeah, I know--that's drama and good storytelling and whatever else, but if they keep removing characters I want to see, then what's the point?
As for TNG, it really was like forcing myself to get through them. After Voyager used the Borg to death, we faced the Collective three more times in TNG-R (3 out of the 5 books, mind you, counting Death in Winter) and then the Destiny trilogy. The Borg get more and more powerful, yet we can still defeat them. Then there's Starfleet Command spouting "The Borg are no longer a threat." Seriously, are they that short-sightted? "Janeway killed the Queen." Ok, yeah...and before that, Janeway killed the Queen...and before that Picard killed the Queen...so what does that tell you? Isn't Starfleet Command made up of former starship officers who have more experience than just optimistic (delusional?) bureaucracy? I know they didn't want him at the Battle of Sector 001 in First Contact, but this was above and beyond.
Then there's the matter of Picard's crew. We meet a new set of people in Resistance...and then a new set of people in Q&A...and still new people in Greater than the Sum. I got tired of trying to get to know the new crew only to have all of them all replaced in the next book. I like where Worf's storyline has gone well enough (aside from that weird T'Lana proto-romance that seemed equal parts attraction and spite), a good thing as he's one of my favorite characters in all of Trekdom. Worf alone, however, isn't enough to keep me going.
No complaints about Janeway's ultimate fate. I wasn't big on Voyager or the captain herself, but I don't need to see the entire crew wiped out to feel good about myself.
Then we come to Destiny and Captain Ezri Dax. I suppose we have precendents for lower-ranking officers quickly advanced to the captaincy, and Dax does have more experience than the next guy. I was just never overly fond of Ezri. And I'm concerned about this 2381 storyline spoiling for the DS9-R line (still back in 2377 or so), which I really enjoy. You take some amount of mystery out of those stories when you jump ahead several years in time, show what's happened to some of those people, and make references back to DS9 stories that haven't happened yet. Now, I already know who to watch for in resolving The Soul Key.
And now, the Borg. They were really scary when they could assimilate you and gain all your knowledge and use that against you while leaving you in a hell inside your own body. Then in Voyager, they sort of gave up trying. Not one member of that crew was assimilated for more than an hour. And I'm not even sure the Borg killed anyone. I feel that a full-out Borg invasion of the Fedreation should have been those thousands of ships moving to assimilate everyone and using our newest tactics and weapons against us. Any adversary can just kill you.
I was really hopeful for all of the relaunches, especially after the success of DS9-R, but have mostly felt half-hearted about them. I suppose I've enjoyed Destiny (so far) enough for what it was, and I will finish that saga... though I have my doubts about continuing down that path afterwards. I may even pick up Titan #5 and give that one more shot, as long as they stop killing people I want to keep seeing.
I'm all for occasionally mixing it up and trying something new, and I salute the writers for taking things in bold new directions. Unfortunately, it's not really doing it for me. All of you who enjoy where this is headed, I genuinely wish you luck. I'll be back in 2377, hanging around the Bajoran Sector.
Um, great post. My exact sentiment. Its not that the books are bad, but your Borg remarks are dead on. The Borg have been so overused, and even when you think they are gone, you gotta know that if the sales start to slip the higher-ups will demand...another Borg book....
I have decided, because my time is limited, to just read the new books that will come out of the new Star Trek movie. The Original Universe had its day...and a new dawn has come...
I'm not gonna go into the Janeway thing here because it's discussed at other threads but I'm a bit dissatisfied over the fact that so many of the main characters are missing in the TNG, DS9 and Voyager books and too many of them have been shipped around to different locations.
And see, this is where we differ (though like you, I'm not going to go into the Janeway thing or anything like that - I'm just pointing out that you and I have different opinions, and that's great); I really like that the various book series have cross-pollinated characters, 'cause it makes it feel (as Steve Roby said) like the whole universe is one cohesive place, and that it's only natural that somebody who used to be on the Enterprise would now serve on Deep Space Nine, or somebody from the Voyager would have once served on the Excelsior, or somebody who once guest-starred on The Next Generation would now be a regular in New Frontier. In fact, the first two examples of the foregoing were both things that were done on the various TV series, and I recall that at one point, it seemed very possible that we might get a Trek movie that featured no single TV cast, but rather a combination of casts from the various 24th-century-era series.
In fact, this whole thing is one of the reasons I like KRAD's Articles of the Federation and A Singular Destiny so much - it broadens the world in which these stories take place, and shows that you can have a Star Trek story without any major characters from any of the on-screen incarnations, and it still works as a good story in its own right.
I'm not unhappy over the fact that the Borg are gone (I really hope that they are). All that was interesting with them started to fade already in TNG with the arrival of characters like Hugh and the Borg Queen and they became even more bland in Voyager.
Yep, I agree with you completely there. Onscreen, I think the Borg were done after the first Hugh episode, and even First Contact, as good as it was, only worked because the Borg were dramatically altered from what they'd been before. I didn't like any of their Voyager appearances (though I did like the idea of a de-assimilated Borg joining the crew).
And we'll get them, if current indications bear out. I do agree that the Borg's time had come, and I while think that perhaps there could have reasonably been, say, one less Borg novel than we've had (three out of the five books preceding Destiny featured them!), I also think they've now been given the grand send-off that a villain of the Borg's stature demands.
And the best part of it is that
it was a real Star Trek send-off - that the Borg were not defeated by a big gun or (as in the Shatnerverse) by pulling a big lever, but with a solution of compassion, tolerance and understanding...
...which, for me, at least, typifies what Star Trek is all about.
And I promise, if "OMG not ANOTHER Borg story" is your only reason for avoiding Destiny, that you really really need to get over that and give it a shot. The heart and soul of the story is another tale that only intersects with the Borg invasion at the end, and that story is perhaps the greatest thing TrekLit has produced in many years. I cannot recommend it highly enough, and I'd say that to pretty much anyone without hesitation.
I agree with this too, and I don't see any reason why this couldn't happen from time to time. We've kind of had it already with the e-books from two years ago, and the Sky's the Limit anthology, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was a TV-era Next Generation novel at some point. I'd imagine that with so few available slots, though, that this would be a lower priority than if we were still getting two MMPBs per month.
Oh, me too. We're in the Golden Age of Star Trek right now, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it's not utter perfection (that would require direct sequels to Articles of the Federation and Ex Machina, for one thing), but it's pretty damn close.
Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST
I'm very happy with the current state of ST fiction but some of my favorite series, DS9R, Vanguard, Mirror/Myriad Universe and Lost Era aren't included in Post Nemesis. Here's how I feel about the Post Nemesis series. I think these are the bulk those books, if I've missed anything let me know. I've read all the new stuff, just sometimes forget where things are placed in the time line.
- TTN - Great stuff. I didn't get into the 2nd book much but the rest of the series has been top notch stuff.
- TNG, Death in Winder to Greater than the Sum - For me this has been a lot of writers I like a lot writing books I haven't enjoyed as much as other works by them. These books just haven't been speaking to me for various reasons. DiW and Q&A are at the top but there are a lot of books by those authors I like more. I liked the direction the crew was going on but I wasn't always that into the story itself or the way it was told.
- Articles of the Federation & Klingon: Empire - Both good books that are way up on my list of KRAD's books. I'm not positive the Klingon book is post Nemesis so maybe it doesn't belong here but I think it does. It's a lot more stand alone than most of the books here and you don't need to have read the rest of the books to get this one.
- Destiny Trilogy/A Singular Destiny - Put them in the same grouping to save on typing. I loved them both for the same reasons. Fantastic story well told. I thought it was a great even and KRAD's book was both an excellent followup to the trilogy and a teaser to what's coming.
To sum up, I haven't like every book but I like the direction they are going.
Star Trek fiction could, I think, benefit from doing exactly that. Imagine if each volume of Destiny (to pull a recent example) had opened with a three or four page summary of what had happened to the characters since they were last seen on screen, which would bring new readers up to speed. Every book is someone's first book, to mangle a famous phrase from the comics industry.
It always depends on how you use it, but that seems to me like it'd be a fine idea. While a one or two (or three or four page) narrative might be off-putting to me, a "bullet point" rundown of what's gone before would work beautifully, and it's already been done to great effect in SD Perry's Avatar and Union. That was a fairly elegant solution to a problem, and it seems to me it'd be editorially feasible, writing up the main body of the preview once for each series, and adding and subtracting specific points for each book as the series moves on.
Puh, you realize that you're essentially calling all ST-novels meaningless that came before the decision to move beyond the canon-verse, don't you?!?
I'd definitely not call gems such as "Sarek" meaningless, neither would I call books like "Metamorphosis", "Q-Squared" or "Imzadi" meaningless, or the 2 Yesterday-novels... just to mention a few.
Not for nothing, but of the novels you mentioned, Metamorphosis is a great big reset button, so is Q-Squared, and Imzadi's only character development happened to alternate future versions of the characters. They're not meaningless in and of themselves, but to the characters? They're meaningless by definition, as they went on no journey, and learned nothing. The characters haven't changed at all, because the events that happened, if they're even remembered, don't matter to them. Sarek's a different case, as it takes place after the last real entry in the original film series, features the death of a canon character, and shows us the inner life of a previously pretty unexplored minor character. In a lot of ways, it's a precursor to what I like so much about the current fiction.
The question is whether the casual reader actually wants that. I mean, why, as a newcomer, choose a ST-book if not because of the TV-characters? If I wanted to read of new characters and even new settings, I'd definitely not choose a ST-book but a original SF-book.
As JoeZhang here stated, ST threatens to go down the SW-lane, more action, more conflict - that might make for good and suspenseful books, of course. But IMO the feeling of what ST is all about, peaceful exploration - not only of the galaxy but also its peoples and the characters themselves -, is at risk.
reading through the various threads this is also how i am starting to feel.
63 billion and rising dead. whole planets destroyed.. others with major damage.
billions of refugees..
instead of the optomistic future i thought we would get post nemesis it looks like things are more doom and gloom then ever before.
that trek lit instead of being about exploration of both space and the characters it is just more war and the federation on a continued spiral decline.
with things in such a shape there wont be a lot of resources or desire for exploration .
but considering until recently i had trouble with reading paperbacks there is a lot of trek lit for me to catch up on even if i dont like the current direction of some of the books.
This is going to sound really counter-intuitive, but, when I read Destiny, I found it to be one of the most basically optimistic, life-affirming novels I've read in a long time. And in my view, it had earned its optimism by exploring the dark side -- and then rejecting the idea that darkness is how we should view the world.
63 billion are dead -- but life endures. I found it a very moving, very powerful, and very hopeful message.
that trek lit instead of being about exploration of both space and the characters
Destiny was the exception to that pattern; most Trek novels are not about war and decline. And, sure enough, the post-Destiny novel A Singular Destiny, while it certainly deals with pain and problems stemming from the Borg invasion, is ultimately a novel about the superiority of peaceful cooperation over conflict -- so much so that the main character never even raises a phaser, and talks the supporting characters out of using them, too!
And the Titan series is DEFINITELY primarily about exploration, both character-wise and plot-wise.
with things in such a shape there wont be a lot of resources or desire for exploration .
Wrong-O! Part of the point of Destiny was that peaceful exploration ended up saving the day, not more violence, and so in the wake of the invasion, the Federation is making a deliberate point to continue its exploration programs.
Then there's the matter of Picard's crew. We meet a new set of people in Resistance...and then a new set of people in Q&A...and still new people in Greater than the Sum. I got tired of trying to get to know the new crew only to have all of them all replaced in the next book. I like where Worf's storyline has gone well enough (aside from that weird T'Lana proto-romance that seemed equal parts attraction and spite), a good thing as he's one of my favorite characters in all of Trekdom. Worf alone, however, isn't enough to keep me going.
While it was irksome at times, I think it was better overall for Picard to have that period of instability in his crew. He's had two long-term stable teams under him: The Stargazer command crew and the Enterprise (D&E) command crew. Both had some turnover, but stayed largely intact for up to two decades. After the loss of Stargazer and the breakup of its crew, he had an extended period where assembling such a team wasn't a concern. Then, once he was put in command of the E-D, he had the luxury of bringing in talented people he'd noted during that lull.
With Riker's departure, Data's death, and the general breakup of the Enterprise team post-Nemesis, Picard had to assemble a new team -- soemthing he'd only really done once before, and with shorter notice and much more thinly-stretched personnel resources than he had the first time. Given the circumstances, that turbulence in forming a new command team makes a lot more sense than just plugging new people into the old slots and having only a few initial problems.
Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST
I'm somewhere in the middle.
I enjoy the new cross series continuity. I do. But just like some others have said, I felt they could have done without another war. And while I enjoyed Destiny to a point, I didn't love it, as I hoped I would. I almost feel like I would have enjoyed it more if it had happened sooner. And it felt odd that the borg stories that directly preceded it didn't have more to do with the Destiny arc. I write it off as the price we had to pay to finally be rid of the Borg. And while I've enjoyed the Next Gen relaunch to a point, I've also found it hit or miss. Though I'm not annoyed by the changing crew and the character deaths; I actually like those aspects.
I think I might be one of the only people who actually loved Before Dishonor. And for the record, I don't hate Janeway and I didn't wish for her death during or after the series. I do feel however that her death was handled well. If they bring her back, I'll read it. If they don't, I'll read it and be slightly more impressed. I don't feel cheated when a character I love dies. In some ways, those are my favorite installments. Just like some others have said, I too am a fan of Joss Whedon's creations, and I'm used to my beloved characters dropping like flys.
I think the Titan series has been really great. The new crew was sort of overwhelming at first, but getting to know them has proven to be one of the pleasures of the series.
I like Captain Dax and the Aventine. I look forward to reading about Dax and Sam and finding out how they came to be on that ship, at that time.
I have high hopes for Full Circle. I'd really like the continuation of Voyager to be a success. I read the first 2 years ago and thought they were ok, though I'm rereading them now and I'm not enjoying them at all. I tried to read the 3rd book but could get through it, but I'm trying again to prepare for the new one.
The post series DS9 books are what made me a fan of the novels though, and that series is what's most important to me as a fan. The Mirror Universe story doesn't bother me, as it feels very much like a something the series would have done eventually. And just like some others I then branched out to the others as the continuity began to spread.
I didn't really get into New Frontier until 2 years ago, but that was great as I got to read the whole series in a short amout of time. I'm looking forward to the new installment.
Sorry if I got a bit off topic at all. I tend to ramble.
I guess what I meant by all this is that I like the cross continity in the post Nemesis books, even if I don't like all the choices being made therein. But I'd rather have the continuty than not. Continiuty and character development are what keep me reading.
Are you sure? It sure seemed to me that they were setting it up to where the reader would WANT somebody to off Zife and Azernal even if there's some obligatory rhetoric about how "awful" it is.
Anyone who would read a Trek novel and want a ruthless, extralegal black-ops organization to assassinate anyone has completely and utterly missed the point of Star Trek.
Are you sure? It sure seemed to me that they were setting it up to where the reader would WANT somebody to off Zife and Azernal even if there's some obligatory rhetoric about how "awful" it is.
Anyone who would read a Trek novel and want a ruthless, extralegal black-ops organization to assassinate anyone has completely and utterly missed the point of Star Trek.
Re: Anyone Else Unhappy With the Post Nemesis Novels & Direction of ST
I am mostly happy with the new direction, and looking forward to the Typhon Pact being fleshed out properly, but ... I really, REALLY cannot wrap my head around Captain Dax.
In a very short amount of time, she went from the crappiest counselor in Trek history to a supposedly capable commanding officer. And of course, being a DS9 Relaunch fan, I'm miffed that there's no explanation of how she got from DS9 to Aventine, or what the people back on DS9 are doing without her.
But since DS9 Relaunch is pretty much dead in the water (we get a new book once every ... couple of years? whenever someone gets around to it?), I'm happy with TNG, TTN, and all of KRAD's stuff.
The post series DS9 books are what made me a fan of the novels though, and that series is what's most important to me as a fan. The Mirror Universe story doesn't bother me, as it feels very much like a something the series would have done eventually.
I'm with neogothboy. I still don't think I've read the entirety of the "flip" side of the last DS9 novel, but mainly because I'm not at all interested in Ghemor's backstory. So as a novel, it felt like half a novel, and it was half a novel I had to wait 2 years for ...
Now, with the Typhon Pact, I'm wondering if they're going to drop the Ascendant thing altogether.
So in getting back to the original topic ... I guess I'm only really unhappy with the recent DS9 series. I'm liking Titan a lot, and the TNG new direction actually got me buying TNG novels again for the first time in many years. (The last time I was tempted to was the "A Time To..." series, but didn't buy any, I read a friend's copies.)
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