The way TNG looked in the ENT episode "These are The Voyages"....
- Thread starter The Rock
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Actually, it was. Difference is, it was originally intended to end the third season, should the show have been cancelled that year. This would have actually have helped the ENT portion of the story since the NX-01's decomissioning would have been the result of the heavy damage inflicted by the Xindi. As opposed to the aired version of TATV which gives no logical reason for why the NX-01 was decommissioned only ten years after launch. Modern day space shuttles have longer life than that.
Obviously CBS, Trek's actual owner, disagrees with you, or they wouldn't have let Pocket publish it.
I don't think it's a matter of CBS agreeing or disagreeing. CBS just wants to make money, and any idiot with a computer can see there's a market for a book which blatantly pissess all over TATV.
Still doesn't mean they were right to contradict it. Really what they've done is legitimized internet fanboy bitching, showing that if you whine enough, make enough forum avatars, someone will listen. Internet fanboys are meant to be nothing more than someone who's nonsensical rants provide amusement and a pleasant distracting from the rigors of actual life. Doing something like this book will give them mad delusions about their importance and suddenly they're strutting around everywhere as if they're all important, when really they're the lowest forms of life on the planet.
Actually, Margaret Clark and Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels have made it clear that they made that creative choice because of their own opinions of the irrationality of the TATV depiction of Trip's death, not on the basis of any Internet fans' pressure one way or the other.
The episode was, to me, a failure and should have taken place on the Titan and been about the Earth-Romulan war for it to make any real sense.
That said, I did enjoy the way the E-D CGI model looked and the composition of the scene, but the interiors looked like parody, and, despite a healthy nostalgic appreciation for the 4-foot E-D physical model, I think the ship looked its best as depicted by the 4-foot model and matching CGI in 'Generations.'
And then they blew the damn thing up.
That said, I did enjoy the way the E-D CGI model looked and the composition of the scene, but the interiors looked like parody, and, despite a healthy nostalgic appreciation for the 4-foot E-D physical model, I think the ship looked its best as depicted by the 4-foot model and matching CGI in 'Generations.'
And then they blew the damn thing up.
Just to say something possible about TaTV:
The phaser fight on Rigel is pretty spectacular, very chaotic and well-directed. I recently watched TaTV as part of my chronological Trek viewing, right after The Pegasus, and it was very noticeable that the phaser fights on ENT were much better shot and choreographed than the ones on ol' TNG. Not surprising at all ofcourse, but it did stand out.
And I still like the idea of Riker and Troi walking around the NX-01 bridge talking about how small Archers ready room is and how "Kirk's ship" had viewer similar to T'Pol's. VERY fanboy-ish, but I like to indulge in that every now and then.
The phaser fight on Rigel is pretty spectacular, very chaotic and well-directed. I recently watched TaTV as part of my chronological Trek viewing, right after The Pegasus, and it was very noticeable that the phaser fights on ENT were much better shot and choreographed than the ones on ol' TNG. Not surprising at all ofcourse, but it did stand out.
And I still like the idea of Riker and Troi walking around the NX-01 bridge talking about how small Archers ready room is and how "Kirk's ship" had viewer similar to T'Pol's. VERY fanboy-ish, but I like to indulge in that every now and then.
I, too, am in the minority in that I enjoyed TATV. Yes, it was more of a TNG episode than an ENT one, but I loved seeing Riker, Troi, and the Ent-D again.
Yes, the actors aged. That didn't bother me as I was able to suspend my belief (similar to watching Spock age dramatically between ST:TMP and Undiscovered Country and than not age at all over the next 70+ years until he met Picard).
The sets weren't perfect, the plot was somewhat contrived, but it was still FUN. The nice thing about that episode too, is that anything you didn't like can be written off as an error in the holodeck program.
Yes, the actors aged. That didn't bother me as I was able to suspend my belief (similar to watching Spock age dramatically between ST:TMP and Undiscovered Country and than not age at all over the next 70+ years until he met Picard).
The sets weren't perfect, the plot was somewhat contrived, but it was still FUN. The nice thing about that episode too, is that anything you didn't like can be written off as an error in the holodeck program.
Thats a good point actually... most of the fight scenes in Trek have bugged me due to their directing. The one that comes to mind is th eKlingon boarding party in DS9's Way of the Warrior where these fierce aggressive warriors are pausing and waiting for the main actors to beat them up.
If you've ever seen The Warriors it's the same in the fight with the baseball gang as you see one guy struggling in a fight and the rest of the gang just standing around in the background. Those kind of things really bug me for some reaosn.
The hideous four-footer was not used in Generations. The elegant (and refurbished) six-footer was.
And that is, somehow, a bad thing?
Here's what Mangels said:
"It was such an abomination in the eyes of God, Man and nearly every fan in the galaxy, that Paramount agreed to allow us to write a story that kind of makes sense out of it."
I find invader boarding scenarios very distracting and irritating. Ship tend to be out of power after some pew! pew! shots and the crew was stomping around with flashlights, as good as screaming "Shoot ME!!!"
The "something" that bugged me about HEROES was the exec producer that just got fired, Jeph Loeb. Check his track record. From "Commando" to "Teen Wolf 2" to the latter years of Smallville, to Season Two of LOST, everything this guys touches turns to mediocrity. Thank god they got rid of him. Here's hoping for the next Chapter...
Not everything. Jeph Loeb did write the excellent comic book Batman: The Long Halloween which was cannibalized for both of Nolan's Batman movies. He also wrote Superman: For All Seasons. He collaborated with Tim Sale on both of those.
I love Superman For All Seasons - I think it's one of the best Superman stories ever done, and I wish they'd put out an Absolute Edition of it. Like middyseafort, I like The Long Halloween a lot - it's either the best or second best thing Loeb/Sale have ever done together. Dark Victory, its sequel, was a pretty good follow-up, but not in the same class as the original. Haven't been crazy about any of their Marvel work, though it's still true that working with Sale seems to raise Loeb's game a bit - the Marvel stuff he's done without Tim Sale is Loeb's worst work ever.
As to the actual topic, well...I've never been able to get all the way through the episode, but the Enterprise-D looked okay to me. Riker and Troi, on the other hand, looked ridiculous. It would be like having Shatner try to pass for a Wrath of Khan-era Kirk the way he looks now.
Since this is about both TNG and ENT, I figured it'd be best to put it in this forum. But if it's in the wrong forum, please direct it to the correct one, mods.
The Enterprise episode "These Are The Voyages" may have been a bad episode, but the TNG era set-pieces in the episode never looked better! They looked far better than anything that was seen in the actual TNG show. I think one of the best looking parts was when Troi and Riker are sitting down talking, and in the windows you can see a beautiful looking asteroid belt. Also, the shot of the Enterprise-D at the end of the episode was great!
So my question is, is this how TNG was always supposed to look like, but they just didn't have the budget to do so at the time the TNG show was on the air?
Enterprise-D looked great on that episode, but it would have made sense to have the TNG section involved in an unaired mission;or even better have it take place on either the Enterprise-e in the timeframe between Insurrection and Nemesis, or on the Titan right before Riker takes command. Also These are the voyages should have been two hours then at least the Enterprise cast would have more air time on the episode. The episode was enjoyable, but not the best trek episode I have seen.
The six-footer by far was the better model. That f'ing bloated four-footer looked like a parody of Probert's design with the exaggerated ten-forward windows and overdone lifeboat doors.
No, you argued that it was a decision made in response to Internet fans' pressure, which is an entirely different conclusion.
In any event, I think that the conclusion that CBS/Paramount only allowed Mangels and Martin to re-interpret "These Are the Voyages...." because they thought it would be more profitable is a deeply cynical interpretation that's supported by zero evidence. The authors and editors have said on numerous occasions that Paula M. Block, the person at CBS Licensing who approves Trek novels (and who approved them at Paramount Licensing before the change in corporate letterhead), is a huge Star Trek fan who often makes useful suggestions that improve the storyline. And, indeed, Block has co-written Trek books herself, including The Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion and Star Trek 101. To attribute creative apathy to her and to CBS as a result of character testimony and documentary evidence is, I think, fundamentally irrational.
It's not just the aged actors and Trip's death among other things, but the plot makes no sense.
I don't get what Trip's death had to do with whether or not Riker should confess to being a part of the cloaking device controversy, and in the original Pegasus episode it was the fact that they were caught in that rock that made Riker confess to there being a cloaking device, not because of visiting a holodeck program.
I don't get what Trip's death had to do with whether or not Riker should confess to being a part of the cloaking device controversy, and in the original Pegasus episode it was the fact that they were caught in that rock that made Riker confess to there being a cloaking device, not because of visiting a holodeck program.
Sirtis, Maybe,But Frakes? Come on now. That looked almost as bad as Frakes wearing a Superman suit when he guest stared with his wife on Lois and Clark.
Which is odd because TNG was still in production at the time. Maybe the director (David Carson?) lighted the scenes differently than the norm.
As for TATV, I think it's an "okay" Trek episode overall, but I think it's insulting to ENT to have TNG butting into its series finale like that.
You're right, I actually meant to say 6-footer and mistyped. The 4-footer was so... bulbous.
One can only hope that they also see fit to "make sense" out of "And the Children Shall Lead", "Threshold", and "Profit and Lace", all of which were a hundred times the abomination that TATV was.
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