The way TNG looked in the ENT episode "These are The Voyages"....

[Warp Coil]

I still don't understand TATV. I don't understand why it was written that way, why Riker and Troi were involved, and why it was written to take place during a TNG episode. Frakes and Sirtis have obviously aged - they don't look like they belong back in TNG's 7th season anymore, so why force it? I agree that, if they had to be in this episode, it would have been smarter to have the ep take place on either the Enterprise-E or Titan. From a production standpoint, it wouldn't have been any more expensive since they had to re-built the TNG sets from scratch anyway.

The TNG sets also looked "off". The detailing wasn't the same. The colors seemed a bit too bright - but this could have been due to lighting and video quality. The turbolift was completely wrong. Troi's hair was inaccurate compared to TNG's 7th season, and "Pegasus" in particular.

 

[Bonzo the Fifth]

The TNG sets also looked "off". The detailing wasn't the same. The colors seemed a bit too bright - but this could have been due to lighting and video quality. The turbolift was completely wrong. Troi's hair was inaccurate compared to TNG's 7th season, and "Pegasus" in particular.

Shot in the dark, here, but I imagine lighting and video are probably the entire reason for an 'off' coloring. I mean, I had the same thought during Generations, when, even though they were using the EXACT SAME SET, it all just looked... off (I'm not even getting into the perpetual shadows)...

 

[The Wormhole]

Wait....Trip is dead? But...in the books...back to life...it's canon right?

Don't get me started on that. Look, I don't like TATV and consider it to be the very worst Trek. But it is a Trek episode and has to be counted as canon just as much as fan favourites like The City on the Edge of Forever or The Best of Both Worlds. Pocket Books is stepping too far out of line by discarding it. But that's an argument for another time.

 

[jamestyler]

Wait....Trip is dead? But...in the books...back to life...it's canon right?

Don't get me started on that. Look, I don't like TATV and consider it to be the very worst Trek. But it is a Trek episode and has to be counted as canon just as much as fan favourites like The City on the Edge of Forever or The Best of Both Worlds. Pocket Books is stepping too far out of line by discarding it. But that's an argument for another time.

Theres always the argument that records were wrong for some reason. The episode isn't set in the Enterprise era, just a holodeck program in the 24th century.

But then, considering how important that ship and it's crew was to Starfleet it's a pretty big hole and I'd agree that it shouldn't be disregarded and re-written as it's not exactly a fan favourite.

Oddly I sent my rented copy back yesterday and the episode, while not perfect, has grown on me.

 

[The]

^It's a perfectly fine wrap-up to the Trek-on-TV era that began in '87 with TNG. Other than that, most any complaints are fanboy complaints about cannon, pedantic details, and those fans that don't like the way they killed off Trip. Otherwise, it was a nice love-letter...

 

[TheGodBen]

^It's a perfectly fine wrap-up to the Trek-on-TV era that began in '87 with TNG. Other than that, most any complaints are fanboy complaints about cannon, pedantic details, and those fans that don't like the way they killed off Trip. Otherwise, it was a nice love-letter...

No, I hate it because of how horridly written it was; the dialogue was just awful and the acting was completely off. It never bothered me that it had Riker and Troi and I have no problem with the idea of Trip's death, but the writing, acting and directing were all terrible for this episode, and that is why I consider it an awful episode.

 

[jamestyler]

^It's a perfectly fine wrap-up to the Trek-on-TV era that began in '87 with TNG. Other than that, most any complaints are fanboy complaints about cannon, pedantic details, and those fans that don't like the way they killed off Trip. Otherwise, it was a nice love-letter...

I liked the fact that someone died, I always like a good death. But it just felt rushed and (although I'm not fond of the word) random.

To me the idea was nice, execution flawed. But watching it a few times with an open mind just to be entertained, I liked it. the same could be said for other shows - such as Heroes. Something in the last season really bugged me, but if I put that aside it becomes more enjoyable.

 

[The]

the same could be said for other shows - such as Heroes. Something in the last season really bugged me, but if I put that aside it becomes more enjoyable.

The "something" that bugged me about HEROES was the exec producer that just got fired, Jeph Loeb. Check his track record. From "Commando" to "Teen Wolf 2" to the latter years of Smallville, to Season Two of LOST, everything this guys touches turns to mediocrity. Thank god they got rid of him. Here's hoping for the next Chapter...

 

[The]

No, I hate it because of how horridly written it was; the dialogue was just awful and the acting was completely off.
...but the writing, acting and directing were all terrible for this episode, and that is why I consider it an awful episode.

Pretty much sums up the entire series of Voyager, doesn't it?

 

[Broccoli]

The TNG sets also looked "off". The detailing wasn't the same. The colors seemed a bit too bright - but this could have been due to lighting and video quality. The turbolift was completely wrong. Troi's hair was inaccurate compared to TNG's 7th season, and "Pegasus" in particular.

Shot in the dark, here, but I imagine lighting and video are probably the entire reason for an 'off' coloring. I mean, I had the same thought during Generations, when, even though they were using the EXACT SAME SET, it all just looked... off (I'm not even getting into the perpetual shadows)...

Same with DS9 "Emissary". The stuff that took place on the E-D looked off. I am sure it was the lighting.

Production value-wise, the show looked great (since that was what the OP intended with this thread). As for the story, the concept was sound and they had some good ideas in there, but it didn't have the greatest execution. If it were up to me, I probably would have done things differently, but it is what it is.

 

[CaptJimboJones]

It was an interesting idea with horrible execution. As others have said, they should have set the TNG portion post-Nemesis. Instead, by setting it during TNGs run, Riker and Troi both looked strangely old and fat, popping out of their old TNG uniforms. Their appearance alone was so distracting that it was impossible to swallow the timeframe. And then the storyline itself was completely disjointed and untrue to the characters from both series. And to make matters worse, it ended up being the series finale (which to be fair wasn't the original intention when they came up with the idea).

It could have worked wonderfully if it had been set on the Titan, not killed off major characters for no good reason, and come up with a compelling reason for Riker to be viewing old Enterprise holograms, it might have worked.

 

[TheGodBen]

No, I hate it because of how horridly written it was; the dialogue was just awful and the acting was completely off.
...but the writing, acting and directing were all terrible for this episode, and that is why I consider it an awful episode.

Pretty much sums up the entire series of Voyager, doesn't it?

Don't get me started on Voyager, I would be here all night.

 

[uniderth]

We all know the real reason they put Riker and Troi in that episode. It was to tie it in with the Star Trek timeline so they could "prove" that Enterprise really is part of the Star Trek universe. It was to silence all of those who don't accept Enterprise as part of Star Trek including us "End Enterprise" vets.

 

[Sci]

Wait....Trip is dead? But...in the books...back to life...it's canon right?

Don't get me started on that. Look, I don't like TATV and consider it to be the very worst Trek. But it is a Trek episode and has to be counted as canon just as much as fan favourites like The City on the Edge of Forever or The Best of Both Worlds. Pocket Books is stepping too far out of line by discarding it.

Obviously CBS, Trek's actual owner, disagrees with you, or they wouldn't have let Pocket publish it.

 

[ClayinCA]

We all know the real reason they put Riker and Troi in that episode. It was to tie it in with the Star Trek timeline so they could "prove" that Enterprise really is part of the Star Trek universe. It was to silence all of those who don't accept Enterprise as part of Star Trek including us "End Enterprise" vets.

I doubt that Berman and Braga cared one jot that there were any fans who thought that way.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

the same could be said for other shows - such as Heroes. Something in the last season really bugged me, but if I put that aside it becomes more enjoyable.

The "something" that bugged me about HEROES was the exec producer that just got fired, Jeph Loeb. Check his track record. From "Commando" to "Teen Wolf 2" to the latter years of Smallville, to Season Two of LOST, everything this guys touches turns to mediocrity. Thank god they got rid of him. Here's hoping for the next Chapter...

Not everything. Jeph Loeb did write the excellent comic book Batman: The Long Halloween which was cannibalized for both of Nolan's Batman movies. He also wrote Superman: For All Seasons. He collaborated with Tim Sale on both of those.

 

[The Wormhole]

(which to be fair wasn't the original intention when they came up with the idea).

Actually, it was. Difference is, it was originally intended to end the third season, should the show have been cancelled that year. This would have actually have helped the ENT portion of the story since the NX-01's decomissioning would have been the result of the heavy damage inflicted by the Xindi. As opposed to the aired version of TATV which gives no logical reason for why the NX-01 was decommissioned only ten years after launch. Modern day space shuttles have longer life than that.

Wait....Trip is dead? But...in the books...back to life...it's canon right?

Don't get me started on that. Look, I don't like TATV and consider it to be the very worst Trek. But it is a Trek episode and has to be counted as canon just as much as fan favourites like The City on the Edge of Forever or The Best of Both Worlds. Pocket Books is stepping too far out of line by discarding it.

Obviously CBS, Trek's actual owner, disagrees with you, or they wouldn't have let Pocket publish it.

I don't think it's a matter of CBS agreeing or disagreeing. CBS just wants to make money, and any idiot with a computer can see there's a market for a book which blatantly pissess all over TATV.

Still doesn't mean they were right to contradict it. Really what they've done is legitimized internet fanboy bitching, showing that if you whine enough, make enough forum avatars, someone will listen. Internet fanboys are meant to be nothing more than someone who's nonsensical rants provide amusement and a pleasant distracting from the rigors of actual life. Doing something like this book will give them mad delusions about their importance and suddenly they're strutting around everywhere as if they're all important, when really they're the lowest forms of life on the planet.

 

[The]

Not everything. Jeph Loeb did write the excellent comic book Batman: The Long Halloween which was cannibalized for both of Nolan's Batman movies. He also wrote Superman: For All Seasons. He collaborated with Tim Sale on both of those.

I didn't care for Long Halloween, but I'll give you For All Seasons. I think that's his only work I like...

 

[RandyS]

Still doesn't mean they were right to contradict it. Really what they've done is legitimized internet fanboy bitching, showing that if you whine enough, make enough forum avatars, someone will listen. Internet fanboys are meant to be nothing more than someone who's nonsensical rants provide amusement and a pleasant distracting from the rigors of actual life. Doing something like this book will give them mad delusions about their importance and suddenly they strutting around everywhere as if they're all imprtant, when really they're the lowest forms of life on the planet.

Does anybody else see the irony in this?

 

[The Wormhole]

Still doesn't mean they were right to contradict it. Really what they've done is legitimized internet fanboy bitching, showing that if you whine enough, make enough forum avatars, someone will listen. Internet fanboys are meant to be nothing more than someone who's nonsensical rants provide amusement and a pleasant distracting from the rigors of actual life. Doing something like this book will give them mad delusions about their importance and suddenly they strutting around everywhere as if they're all imprtant, when really they're the lowest forms of life on the planet.

Does anybody else see the irony in this?

The irony is intentional.