Top 10 Sci-Fi Tv Shows Poll by Sci Fi Channel

[OdoWanKenobi]

Can someone explain to me how, a few episodes with robots aside, Buffy and Angel can be considered sci-fi?

 

[tharpdevenport]

Can someone explain to me how, a few episodes with robots aside, Buffy and Angel can be considered sci-fi?

Well, if you can explain how vampires, werewolves, demons, and magic are science fact.

 

[zog]

Can someone explain to me how, a few episodes with robots aside, Buffy and Angel can be considered sci-fi?

Can't help you, but I even have a problem considering X-Files when I think of my favorite "sci fi." It's a great series, and I thought Buffy was great too, as horror/genre. But South Park has more science fiction than Buffy and X-Files combined, imo. Even mork and mindy is 'more' sci fi in my little book.

Still, it's a topic I've seen done to death (and I've was absent here for years), it gets even messier when you bring in fantasy (including Star Wars, and maybe even my favorite, Farscape with certain criteria). And after the arguments I've generally noticed nobody changed their thoughts on the subject, some took the classifications very seriously, and some even took it personally, on occasion.

I still see Alias on some lists, and today's Chuck has the 'intersect,' which could vault the earth-bound show to sci fi status for some (not me, obviously). My approach was to just assign my last two slots to the Prisoner (not especially scifi, really) and Buffy/X-Files.

 

[Neroon]

Can someone explain to me how, a few episodes with robots aside, Buffy and Angel can be considered sci-fi?

Well, if you can explain how vampires, werewolves, demons, and magic are science fact.

They aren't sci-fi ... but they are more fantasy in my estimation. As is wont with much of the public, there is a tendency to lump horror/fantasy in with sci-fi/fantasy. Such is the case here, since we don't have a "Horror" sub-forum.

 

[Hermiod]

^I tend to think of Sci-Fi and meaning "Science Fiction and Fantasy".

Otherwise I'd end up not being able to mention Dr. Strange and Thor when talking about comics on here.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Lost
Battlestar Galactica (2003)
Stargate SG-1
Babylon 5
The X-Files
Firefly
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
Space: Above & Beyond

Just missed making the list:

Heroes (but only Season 1, and minus the S1 finale which was crap)
Journeyman
The 4400
Star Wars: The Clone Wars
Futurama
The Dead Zone
Stargate Atlantis
Pushing Daisies (if we're counting fantasy)

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

^I tend to think of Sci-Fi and meaning "Science Fiction and Fantasy".

Otherwise I'd end up not being able to mention Dr. Strange and Thor when talking about comics on here.

Yes you could. This forum is Science Fiction and Fantasy. But there is a distinction, with Buffy clearly falling in the latter.

 

[Lindley]

The trappings are fantasy, yes. But the types of stories told are the same as in many SF shows-----time loops, parasites, body swaps, etc. Only the justifications for the stories differ.

It's a difference that doesn't really make a whole lot of difference, entertainment-wise, as far as I'm concerned. When it comes right down to it, magicbabble is pretty much the same as technobabble in many cases.....

 

[DarkProphet]

The trappings are fantasy, yes. But the types of stories told are the same as in many SF shows-----time loops, parasites, body swaps, etc. Only the justifications for the stories differ.

It's a difference that doesn't really make a whole lot of difference, entertainment-wise, as far as I'm concerned. When it comes right down to it, magicbabble is pretty much the same as technobabble in many cases.....

I agree. Whether it is sci-fi or fantasy, the main thing is that the setting is *different* from the everyday world. From an entertainment perspective, its the development of the characters that drive the show (whether they be in space fighting aliens or on earth fighting demons). That's the reason why Joss Whedon is so successful in both the fantasy genre and sci-fi genre because his characters are really developed and have lot of personality (and the actual setting becomes almost secondary).

 

[Admiral2]

That's not what I see at all. I see a show about a group of people who have found themselves on the short end of the law through sheer overwhelming circumstance rather than choice.

(snip)

Outcasts, certainly; being on the losing side of a war can do that. Bad guys, certainly not. They break the law when necessary to keep food on the table and gas in the engine, and even kill when they're forced to, but they're basically good people, morally speaking.

Do all Firefly fans feel that way?

The same except nobody wears clothes or uses weapons that look like they were made in 1876

Stylistic choice. Advanced sonic and laser weapons were clearly used by the Alliance military, and Mal even had a mean-looking assault rifle in one of the war scenes, but the high-tech stuff is strictly controlled (often illegal for private owners), and the infrastructure of the border planets is such that it would be difficult to keep one maintained as easily as a simple pistol. Said pistol doesn't *have* to look like a six-shooter, but I understand why they'd make that choice in the art department. Still, the sound effects and apparent magazine size suggest at least somewhat advanced workings.

Additionally the "old west" design complements another stylistic choice of the show----that the future is made up of scrambled-together aspects of the past.

Which is silly. That would only happen if future humainty is made up of nothing but nostalgics, rich and poor.

I don't think they ever took the metaphor *that* far. The crew is only shown riding horses when it's the only practical transportation available and speed is required (I only recall two instances, actually). There was no roping that I recall, and the only cattle-transport job they did was one of the less illegal ventures they engaged in, and no rustling was involved.

Exaggerations on my part maybe, but what do you expect me to take from viewing a "sci-fi" show so desperate to be Gunsmoke in China?

Why wouldn't you expect them to be speaking it?

It's not that I wouldn't expect people in the future to be speaking Chinese. To reiterate, you wouldn't expect natives of nineteenth century Nevada that aren't Chinese to speak it, which is the image your heroes project, and again, my mind boggles that a fan of the show can't see how utterly screwed up that image seems to a non-fan.

Is it hard to believe that America and China would be the two nations with the greatest spaceflight capability if an Exodus from Earth were required in the next hundred years?

No.

Or that, with a few hundreds of thousands of survivors at most populating a whole new solar system after perhaps decades on generation ships, the two cultures would become inextricably entwined?

Again, no. The problem here is not cultural evolution. The problem is the way Joss Whedon chose to present it. America and China uniting as one culture in a future where unity is necessary makes sense. The Americans and Chinese then deciding to combine seventeenth century China and nineteenth century America to do it is stupid.

The content and trappings fit in the overall context.

They do in Firefly as well; it merely requires some deeper exploration of the premise to fully understand it. That very non-obviousness is part of the appeal.

I've watched the series. I've seen the movie. They both have the same problems. How much deeper do you want me to go?

 

[Lindley]

That's not what I see at all. I see a show about a group of people who have found themselves on the short end of the law through sheer overwhelming circumstance rather than choice.

(snip)

Outcasts, certainly; being on the losing side of a war can do that. Bad guys, certainly not. They break the law when necessary to keep food on the table and gas in the engine, and even kill when they're forced to, but they're basically good people, morally speaking.

Do all Firefly fans feel that way?

I can't speak for the others specifically, but the general perception is that while some of the characters might be anti-heroes, they're not the "bad guys".

Which is silly. That would only happen if future humainty is made up of nothing but nostalgics, rich and poor.

All right, you've got a group of a few thousand "colonists" dumped on a newly terraformed planet by the government, well-provisioned with livestock, blankets, maybe a few prefab shelters for the lucky ones, and little else. What sort of culture would you expect to emerge from this, assuming they survive? Granted, it may not look exactly like the old west, but you can see how it could----start low tech, and work your way back up to industrial as you begin taming the land enough to produce some exports. Maybe even manage to buy a bit of high-tech stuff eventually if you can establish the infrastructure to keep it serviced. Horses would be *much* easier to maintain than groundcars or hovercraft, at least at first......and those like Mal who have managed to get ahold of a ship would be a vital part of the economy. As the narration said, "A ship will bring you work, a gun will help you keep it."

Of course, none of that would be necessary if a new colony got proper support from the central planets. But the entire premise is that the central planets don't care; they've overreached themselves to the point where no one remembers to care because they have too many other things to worry about.

America and China uniting as one culture in a future where unity is necessary makes sense. The Americans and Chinese then deciding to combine seventeenth century China and nineteenth century America to do it is stupid.

Well, they don't, really. That's not obvious, but if you read between the lines it seems that the chinese influence is much stronger in the Core (all bright any shiny and high-tech), particularly on Sihnon, which is one of the two capitals of the Alliance (with Londinium). Note that the Tams were the characters from the Core----everyone else had more American names.

The fact that everyone knows a bit of Mandarin even on the border is largely just trickle-down. The border itself doesn't appear heavily Chinese-influenced from what we saw.

It's not that I wouldn't expect people in the future to be speaking Chinese. To reiterate, you wouldn't expect natives of nineteenth century Nevada that aren't Chinese to speak it, which is the image your heroes project

I'll grant they were too light on the Asian casting considering the premise.

my mind boggles that a fan of the show can't see how utterly screwed up that image seems to a non-fan.

Oh, I can understand it. But it's a pretty screwed-up little 'verse in a lot of ways, so that kinda just fits in with the rest, you know? Besides, such dualities can be fun to explore.

I've watched the series. I've seen the movie. They both have the same problems. How much deeper do you want me to go?

Where you see problems, I see story opportunities. Yeah, things are a bit strange in some ways. So how did it get that way, and what does it mean for those living there?

Bottom line is, the characters are fun. That's really all that matters. The setting and premise are neat in some ways, bizarre in others (the dozens-of-terraformable-rocks-in-one-solar-system thing is an issue), but you enjoy those aspects which pique your interest and dismiss the rest, becuase the characters make it worthwhile.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

That's not what I see at all. I see a show about a group of people who have found themselves on the short end of the law through sheer overwhelming circumstance rather than choice.

(snip)

Outcasts, certainly; being on the losing side of a war can do that. Bad guys, certainly not. They break the law when necessary to keep food on the table and gas in the engine, and even kill when they're forced to, but they're basically good people, morally speaking.

Do all Firefly fans feel that way?

Can't speak for "all" fans, but I tend to feel that way. Joss' writing on this show comes from a Libertarian/populist perspective. Generally, that which is small and local is good, and that which is big and "above" the local is at least suspect.

One of the central themes is how do good people get along in an increasingly bad world without becoming bad themselves?

Stylistic choice. Advanced sonic and laser weapons were clearly used by the Alliance military, and Mal even had a mean-looking assault rifle in one of the war scenes, but the high-tech stuff is strictly controlled (often illegal for private owners), and the infrastructure of the border planets is such that it would be difficult to keep one maintained as easily as a simple pistol. Said pistol doesn't *have* to look like a six-shooter, but I understand why they'd make that choice in the art department. Still, the sound effects and apparent magazine size suggest at least somewhat advanced workings.

Additionally the "old west" design complements another stylistic choice of the show----that the future is made up of scrambled-together aspects of the past.

Which is silly. That would only happen if future humainty is made up of nothing but nostalgics, rich and poor.

Form follows function. The basic design of the "blue jean" pant hasn't changed in over 120 years. A revolver still looks like a revolver, no matter what type of bullets it shoots. Technology is only as good as it's ability to be sustained.

Are settlers on some remote colony moon going to spend their investment resources on fancy machines that break down relatively easily or proven means to accomplish tasks? Which makes more sense in that environment? Buy a bunch of fancy equipment that will break down in 6 months with repair parts a year or more away, or buy simpler but more rugged basic tools?

Don't fall victim to the "Star Trek" idea that "high-tech" is always better. A Laser Guided Gravitonic Fastener Insertion Device is superfluous when a simple metal hammer will do the same job cheaper and more reliably. A revolver kills just as certainly as a laser beam, and is easier to repair when it breaks.

Exaggerations on my part maybe, but what do you expect me to take from viewing a "sci-fi" show so desperate to be Gunsmoke in China?

Given the suppositions built into the Universe (the coming together of the US and China culturally, plus the logical advantages of more "basic" technology, I would expect you to find it very reasonable and relatively realistic.

It's not that I wouldn't expect people in the future to be speaking Chinese. To reiterate, you wouldn't expect natives of nineteenth century Nevada that aren't Chinese to speak it, which is the image your heroes project, and again, my mind boggles that a fan of the show can't see how utterly screwed up that image seems to a non-fan.

Your analogy breaks down because they AREN'T "natives of 19th century Nevada". They're natives of the 'Verse.

The Americans and Chinese then deciding to combine seventeenth century China and nineteenth century America to do it is stupid.

You rarely get to see the "modern" parts of the 'Verse, because that's not where the story lies. You do get to see glimpses of it from time to time, like the Tam's manse with laster fencing, or Niska's Skyplex.

 

[DWF]

Can't speak for "all" fans, but I tend to feel that way. Joss' writing on this show comes from a Libertarian/populist perspective. Generally, that which is small and local is good, and that which is big and "above" the local is at least suspect.

Just for the record Joss descibes himself as an atheist and an absurdist. He also based Objects In Space on existenlist ideas and he said as much in the commentary for the ep.

 

[Sakrysta]

Somehow this thread has gone from a discussion of Sci-fi's top ten list to yet another apologist seminar for Firefly.

 

[Lindley]

Somehow this thread has gone from a discussion of Sci-fi's top ten list to yet another apologist seminar for Firefly.

A thread split might not be a bad idea.

Although there's a difference between a "seminar" and a series of responses explaining one's viewpoint to someone who sees things differently. I believe the term for that is "debate".

I would also ask what a better source of discussion would be than the relative merits of the shows near the top of the list....

 

[Davros]

George Orwell's 1984 is considered sci-fi?

Of course it is.

 

[Angel4576]

1. Babylon 5
2. Firefly
3. nuBSG
4. Star Trek DS9
5. Jeremiah
6. Angel
7. Carnivale
8. Jericho
9. The X Files
10. Quantum Leap

 

[mswood]

Well if I go by Scifiction Fantasy this is my list.

And part of this is so difficult to you judge every show as if it aired today or to you judge on show on the merits of when it aired. I tend to blend.

1. Deep Space Nine
2. NUBSG
3. The Next Generation
4. Star Trek
5. Lost
6. Twilight Zone
7. Angel
8. Babylon 5
9. Supernatural
10. Buffy

If its just science Fiction.
1. Deep Space Nine
2. NuBSG
3. Next Generation
4. Star Trek
5. Lost
6. Twilight Zone
7. Babylon 5
8. X-Files
9. Firefly
10. Farscape