Dusty Ayres
Commodore
By YOUR standards, not mine. And not all critics hated it either-you'd be surprised. As for not taking off on home video-see above reason related to The Two Towers.
Well that's "Court Martial" and "Obsession" gone then (SPOILERS)
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By YOUR standards, not mine. And not all critics hated it either-you'd be surprised. As for not taking off on home video-see above reason related to The Two Towers.
[Randal Graves] It was still better than JERSEY GIRL. [/Randal]
They must be pretty limited.
I for one am just glad we're getting a TREK movie with Nimoy in it after the past three to five years of Viacom and CBS/Paramount backing away from STAR TREK like a burning tire fire. With the exception of TOS Remastered we've gotten nothing but non-canon novels since 2005 and even those are trickling out in much reduced numbers.
I don't know how much this changes things for you, but the new "Star Trek" movie takes place in a timeline where someone has altered Kirk's personal history, resulting in the discontinuities so many fans have been pouncing on. Nimoy shows up to try to put history and Kirk's life back on track, with mixed results.
- Ibrahim Ng
- Ibrahim Ng
Either way, its got Nimoy as the classic Spock...and its not another movie with Picard and Data running around facing personal issues. Win-win.
This is from my response to the "rewrite Nemesis" thread, with extras:
One of the main problems of this movie was the total lack of explanations for things.
1. Who the hell were the Remans, and why the hell have we never heard of them before? Were they offshoots of the Romulans, or an alien race that was already living on Remus when the Romulans colonized Romulus? The film gives no explanation whatsoever. And if they were the original Romulan settlers, why do they look so different from Romulans? There's no way they should have evolved to look that different from Romulans in only 2,000 years, no matter how harsh their planet was. Obviously they look the way they do for "shock effect," basically "they MUST be evil if they look like that!" (which is the direct opposite of what Star Trek is all about) but they ended up as cardboard villains. It's hard to feel sympathy for them being enslaved when they came across like that.
2. What was the point of the Romulans cloning Picard twenty years ago? From what I remember, it was supposed to be an accelerated-aged Picard, so that he'd be the same age as the real Picard in just twenty years. But why would they have thought Picard would be important twenty years down the road? And how did they get Picard's genetic material twenty years before?
3. What's Shinzon's motivation? He talks about freeing the Remans and taking revenge on the Romulans, but then all of a sudden he wants to attack Earth? Why? What did Earth ever do to him? Unless Donatra and her allies wanted to attack Earth, but why would Shinzon really care what they wanted, since he was only using them to get what he wanted? (I know he also needed Picard's blood, but if he had half a brain in his head he would have known that Picard would have given him a transfusion had he simply asked for it, instead of his convoluted plot to steal it from him.) I'm not buying your "mentally disturbed" excuse for Shinzon. Sure he's young and impulsive (just like the real Picard when he was younger), but I don't see any mental issues with him. It just boils down to the fact that he's just a stupid kid.
4. And on the subject of convoluted plots: Shinzon finds B4 (again without an explanation as to how), and decides to use him both as a lure for Picard and a way to access the Enterprise's info. So the point here is to get B4 into Picard's possession quickly. So how does Shinzon do this? By breaking B4 up into different pieces and planting these pieces all across a planet with incredibly hostile natives, making it extremely hard for Picard to retrieve B4. What kind of a stupid plan is that? Why didn't he just place B4, intact, floating in space in the Enterprise's flight path for Picard to easily pick him up? (Because then we wouldn't have had that stupid dune buggy scene).
5. And on the subject of the Argo Jeep...there must have been several more logical ways to retrieve the B4 parts without endangering Picard's, Data's, and Worf's lives in the process. Hell, if anything, send down three redshirts to drive around that hostile planet!
6. Where did Shinzon get the raw materials to build the Scimitar, and why didn't the Romulans know about this really large warship being built right under their noses? And did the Remans build it in their spare time or something, as if a slave has any spare time?
Would you like some more examples?
maybe it was his twin brother?Wasn't "Obsession" in trouble when the dead Mr Leslie turned up alive in another episode?
So far as Kirk's early service record goes, the consensus seems to be that he was one of those wunderkinds that graduated as a Lieutenant (j.g.), and that the time on the Republic as an ensign was during the final training cruise prior to graduation (the DS9 writers picked up on this and cited the Republic still being used as a training vessel, and that she hadn't left the solar system in over a century).
The time as an instructor would seem to fit in well after the vampire cloud attack on the Farragut, i.e., while the ship is undergoing repairs and personnel replacements are rounded up, Kirk is temporarily assigned as an instructor. His personality at the time also fits with a Type-A personality who's just gone through a traumatic event, blames himself for it, and basically tries to atone for it by diving head first into his work and pounding into his students' heads to, essentially, not make the same mistakes he made when the pressure's on (an attitude that was probably compounded by his experiences on Tarsus IV).
Bottom line, there's plenty of stuff to play with there without tossing out the whole works and making Kirk a rebel without a clue who has a rendezvous with destiny and turning the timeline into a pretzel so that JJ can get his big "Luke Skywalker looking into the twin sunset" shot.
The time as an instructor would seem to fit in well after the vampire cloud attack on the Farragut, i.e., while the ship is undergoing repairs and personnel replacements are rounded up, Kirk is temporarily assigned as an instructor. His personality at the time also fits with a Type-A personality who's just gone through a traumatic event, blames himself for it, and basically tries to atone for it by diving head first into his work and pounding into his students' heads to, essentially, not make the same mistakes he made when the pressure's on (an attitude that was probably compounded by his experiences on Tarsus IV).
Bottom line, there's plenty of stuff to play with there without tossing out the whole works and making Kirk a rebel without a clue who has a rendezvous with destiny and turning the timeline into a pretzel so that JJ can get his big "Luke Skywalker looking into the twin sunset" shot.
because the changes involve details that most people don't remember/care about?
that they have little to do with the basic outline of the characters?
I don't mind the fact that Trek XI is a remake. An injection of new blood and new ideas is OK.
But I do mind the fact that they weren't upfront about it. They lied, basically. They said it would fit within the existing continuity. And it looks like it doesn't.
The only way to fit this movie into canon is if the old 'Yesterday's Enterprise/Year of Hell' reset button is pushed at the end.
However, 'Yesterday's Enterprise' itself proved that the Trek universe is malleable. Not all changes to the timeline were restored (Sela, anyone?) There was the original, pre- YE timeline, the alternate timeline created when the Ent-C vanished from Narendra III, and the restored timeline.
There is already precedent for this kind of story in the Trek universe. It could work very nicely, if the execution is good.
But I do mind the fact that they weren't upfront about it. They lied, basically. They said it would fit within the existing continuity. And it looks like it doesn't.
The only way to fit this movie into canon is if the old 'Yesterday's Enterprise/Year of Hell' reset button is pushed at the end.
However, 'Yesterday's Enterprise' itself proved that the Trek universe is malleable. Not all changes to the timeline were restored (Sela, anyone?) There was the original, pre- YE timeline, the alternate timeline created when the Ent-C vanished from Narendra III, and the restored timeline.
There is already precedent for this kind of story in the Trek universe. It could work very nicely, if the execution is good.
Yeah...Beaten by The Two Towers, I can understand. It was foolish for Paramount to pit Nemesis against that leviathan opponent. But Maid In Manhattan?
That was a really embarrassing moment for Trek fans all over the world. I mean, JLo against Trek? Who knew?He "liaised" with Caithlin Dar, I'd guess, just to appease the internuts who wanna tie every incident and iteration of Trek to every other.
It is also possible that Kirk was a Midshipman Officer. In the US Naval Academy Midshipman can be achieve ranks from Midshipman-Ensign to Midshipman-Captain while in training. It could be that Midshipman-Lieutenant Kirk was teaching underclassman during his junior or senior year when he had Midshipman Gary Mitchell in one of his classes.
I am getting the impression that the entire movie will end with a massive RESET button--you know, that plot device that Trek fans love so so much.
This is a very interesting thread I'll get around to reading, but everybody wants to know what made the great bird fly - details and vision - great story-great music. J.J. is a talented thief.
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