Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cast?
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Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
No.
You just eliminate an interesting dynamic. Shutting down a whole avenue of possible story-telling opportunities.
Plus, you take away a whole slew of fantasy material from today's young male youth... shame on you. To think where I'd be at today without those mini-skirts.
Personally, I always wanted to deemphasize sexual content in science fiction.
StarGate SG:1 did just fine with very little of it.
Considering that Stargate is nothing more than a quarter-assed rip-off of Star Trek, that's not much of an argument. Try again.
But this thread is far more about your own personal psychological problems than about sci fi so maybe it should be moved to Misc?
Because Dayton can't cope with women.Seriously people, this freak show was fun for a while but now it's just getting nonsensical.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
(Goddammit, it's the last time I let Captain X drag me into one of these threads.)
Exceptions are implicit. When I throw a generality, I don't expect to be perceived as meaning it in absolute.
Surely not. But I am not man-hater. Do I really, generally, come off as one??
(Goddammit, it's the last time I let Captain X drag me into one of these threads.)
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
Maybe, maybe not but things like this do not stand you in good stead.
Maybe, maybe not but things like this do not stand you in good stead.
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
Why don't you just watch nuBSG then?
Why don't you just watch nuBSG then?
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
I do. What does that have to do with this conversation?
I'll answer my own question. There is nothing inherently wrong with a trek series with an all-human crew (in fact, to get back on the original topic, there's nothing inherently wrong with an all-male human crew either). The only reason the naysayers here are disagreeing is because they've all been brainwashed into thinking that if a character isn't spouting things like "I'm more logical and I only boink every seven years" or screaming "To Stovokor, with Honor!!!!!!!!!" and wearing various prosthetics you can't make them interesting, which is idiotic. Their are six billion human beings on this little blue jewel in space and assloads of different cultures to choose from, and you can make every single one of them interesting if you work at it.
I do. What does that have to do with this conversation?
I'll answer my own question. There is nothing inherently wrong with a trek series with an all-human crew (in fact, to get back on the original topic, there's nothing inherently wrong with an all-male human crew either). The only reason the naysayers here are disagreeing is because they've all been brainwashed into thinking that if a character isn't spouting things like "I'm more logical and I only boink every seven years" or screaming "To Stovokor, with Honor!!!!!!!!!" and wearing various prosthetics you can't make them interesting, which is idiotic. Their are six billion human beings on this little blue jewel in space and assloads of different cultures to choose from, and you can make every single one of them interesting if you work at it.
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
Or we're thinking there's enough shows out there with all-human cast members and we'd like to see something different. Perhaps something that suggests that in the future humans can work together not just with each other, but with beings from different planets.
It's weird, I know.
Or we're thinking there's enough shows out there with all-human cast members and we'd like to see something different. Perhaps something that suggests that in the future humans can work together not just with each other, but with beings from different planets.
It's weird, I know.
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
But Trek has already had that "something different" in one form or another-prosthetic ears, foreheads, spots, implants, what have you-for more than forty years, which means in the immediate context of Trek, an all human crew would actually be a novel idea.
But given the context of current times, don't you think it's more important to depict the "humans working together" part than it is to worry if we can get along with the Tellerites?
Not weird. You're following the proper Trekkie marching orders.
(News flash: Gene is DEAD! His ashes can't punish you from orbit.)
But Trek has already had that "something different" in one form or another-prosthetic ears, foreheads, spots, implants, what have you-for more than forty years, which means in the immediate context of Trek, an all human crew would actually be a novel idea.
But given the context of current times, don't you think it's more important to depict the "humans working together" part than it is to worry if we can get along with the Tellerites?
Not weird. You're following the proper Trekkie marching orders.
(News flash: Gene is DEAD! His ashes can't punish you from orbit.)
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
Better ignore it if it was dumb and not thought through.
(I'm not quoting myself because it was a bit dumb and hastily put.)
Why don't you rub it in a little more? Talk about holding a grudge!
Better ignore it if it was dumb and not thought through.
(I'm not quoting myself because it was a bit dumb and hastily put.)
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
Since different species have different environmental needs, it's logical to suppose that crews might tend toward same or similar species types. As for women and men, they're both kind of difficult. I like the neutered workplace best.
Since different species have different environmental needs, it's logical to suppose that crews might tend toward same or similar species types. As for women and men, they're both kind of difficult. I like the neutered workplace best.
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
Being gay, having an all-male cast would be a dream.
That said, the whole point of Trek is about diversity and how such a diverse crew can work together. Having an all male-all human cast would defeat that purpose. As a black kid growing up in the 70s and 80s, it was cool to see a black woman like Nichelle Nichols in the cast and later one in the 90s when Avery Brooks was the station commander of Deep Space Nine. It's also been nice to see women in leadership roles.
I can see an all male cast if this were some World War II story, but Star Trek? Nah.
Being gay, having an all-male cast would be a dream.
That said, the whole point of Trek is about diversity and how such a diverse crew can work together. Having an all male-all human cast would defeat that purpose. As a black kid growing up in the 70s and 80s, it was cool to see a black woman like Nichelle Nichols in the cast and later one in the 90s when Avery Brooks was the station commander of Deep Space Nine. It's also been nice to see women in leadership roles.
I can see an all male cast if this were some World War II story, but Star Trek? Nah.
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
All human is fine. And it makes sense; atmosphere, gravity, lighting, everything has to be optimized for one species or another. The vast majority of starships must be crewed predominantly by a single species. Indeed, probably by members of a single species, from a single linguistic background (no matter how good the Universal Translator is).
All male is not, although I'd be fine with all female.
Alternatively, how about no humans? We could have an all-Trill, all-female cast!
Seriously, I like the relationship possibilities of a mixed gender cast. You don't get anything like that by relying on guest stars.
All human is fine. And it makes sense; atmosphere, gravity, lighting, everything has to be optimized for one species or another. The vast majority of starships must be crewed predominantly by a single species. Indeed, probably by members of a single species, from a single linguistic background (no matter how good the Universal Translator is).
All male is not, although I'd be fine with all female.
Alternatively, how about no humans? We could have an all-Trill, all-female cast!
Seriously, I like the relationship possibilities of a mixed gender cast. You don't get anything like that by relying on guest stars.
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
Different atmospheric requirements, for instance. We saw TNG try to address this by having the Benzites having little "gas emmitters" under their noses... but that was actually pretty lame, IMHO. It makes far more sense to create an environment which is comfortable for your entire crew, doesn't it?
Different thermal requirements. Yes, in TOS, we know that Spock found the Enterprise to be chilly, keeping his own quarters much more like a sauna by our perspective. But I'm sure that on the Intrepid, it would have been much hotter and dryer throughout the ship... and the Vulcans onboard would have been much more comfortable.
Different biochemistry. Most of you'll just think of food in that case. Okay, you can argue about "food replicators" making that largely moot, but even then, you're still talking about having stored replicator patterns for every race present, or potentially present. And that's not just a matter of taste ("gagh" or whatever), it's also a matter of biochemistry. Remember, we're not talking RACES, we're talking SPECIES. What might be delicious to you or I might be deadly poison to someone else, and even SMELLING it might make them quite ill. Suppose that some element of coffee... could be the caffeine, could be something else... will cause near-instant death to some members of the crew. Would you allow the crew to have access to coffee? Suppose that for another species, Sarin nerve gas is a favorite perfume. Would you allow that on board?
Now... medical matters. Granted, a computer may store sufficient medical information for everyone, but in the Trek world, medical matters are dealt with by doctors, not computers. McCoy knew human physiology quite well, but early on in the series he made it clear that he wasn't totally familiar with Vulcan biology. Eventually, they got a Vulcan specialist on-board (M'Benga) to compensate for that. This matter is just made all the more serious with every new species you introduce into the mix. And of course there's more than just information, there's also the need for specialized tools, medicines, treatment facilities, etc.
How about language? Yes, we were told that every Trek communicator in TNG had a universal translator installed... hence why we thought everyone spoke English. But isn't that a little silly? Doesn't it make more sense to have the crew able to communicate with each other, without difficulties, without the use of a technology (which may very well fail at some point)? And "have everyone learn English" isn't really a good answer to the question, is it?
What about more subtle environmental issues? Say, lighting. One race might have vision which is more sensitive in one range, and another might be more sensitive to another range.
Humans tend not to react well to blue lighting, for instance. Blue lights make for good indicators, but not for actual ambient or direct illumination. (And before you start saying "but the sky is blue," realize that it looks blue because the blue light is scattered by the atmosphere while the other wavelengths make it to the surface unscattered... so if anything, we see the blue sky but have less blue in the actual visible spectrum of sunlight.)
What if another race is most sensitive with blue light, and yellow light (which we tend to prefer) makes them ill, like blue does with us? Would you put both species on the same ship and make both wear goggles in order to avoid throwing up all over each other?
And, of course, you then get into cultural issues. Trek played with that on occasion, but only in very simple ways. The different cultures were really different HUMAN cultures. None of them were ever particularly alien. And as a rule, the other "alien" cultures (Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, etc, etc) were portrayed as being "less enlightened" than the SoCal culture the series portrayed as being the "good" culture.
Imagine, however, a totally different culture. Perhaps, for instance, one where a female gives birth to a litter of pups once a year, and eats all of them alive except for the strongest one. And these were sentient creatures, albeit infant sentient creatures, remember.
Could we accept that?
SO...
The idea of "mixing cultures" sure sounds great, but there are real, legitimate, logical reasons to minimize the mixing of cultures if we ever face this sort of situation in reality. It's not "discriminatory." In fact, the idea that all of these cultures would have to change and conform to OUR morality and live in an environment comfortable for us (and have to wear a "Benzite Breather") is actually far more discriminatory, I think.
One issue that people tend to ignore, but which is very relevant, is the fact that different species (not the same as "races," remember... there are multiple races of humans on Earth, but we're all part of the human species!) are inevitably going to be incompatible in many ways.All human is fine. And it makes sense; atmosphere, gravity, lighting, everything has to be optimized for one species or another. The vast majority of starships must be crewed predominantly by a single species. Indeed, probably by members of a single species, from a single linguistic background (no matter how good the Universal Translator is).
All male is not, although I'd be fine with all female.
Alternatively, how about no humans? We could have an all-Trill, all-female cast!
Seriously, I like the relationship possibilities of a mixed gender cast. You don't get anything like that by relying on guest stars.
Different atmospheric requirements, for instance. We saw TNG try to address this by having the Benzites having little "gas emmitters" under their noses... but that was actually pretty lame, IMHO. It makes far more sense to create an environment which is comfortable for your entire crew, doesn't it?
Different thermal requirements. Yes, in TOS, we know that Spock found the Enterprise to be chilly, keeping his own quarters much more like a sauna by our perspective. But I'm sure that on the Intrepid, it would have been much hotter and dryer throughout the ship... and the Vulcans onboard would have been much more comfortable.
Different biochemistry. Most of you'll just think of food in that case. Okay, you can argue about "food replicators" making that largely moot, but even then, you're still talking about having stored replicator patterns for every race present, or potentially present. And that's not just a matter of taste ("gagh" or whatever), it's also a matter of biochemistry. Remember, we're not talking RACES, we're talking SPECIES. What might be delicious to you or I might be deadly poison to someone else, and even SMELLING it might make them quite ill. Suppose that some element of coffee... could be the caffeine, could be something else... will cause near-instant death to some members of the crew. Would you allow the crew to have access to coffee? Suppose that for another species, Sarin nerve gas is a favorite perfume. Would you allow that on board?
Now... medical matters. Granted, a computer may store sufficient medical information for everyone, but in the Trek world, medical matters are dealt with by doctors, not computers. McCoy knew human physiology quite well, but early on in the series he made it clear that he wasn't totally familiar with Vulcan biology. Eventually, they got a Vulcan specialist on-board (M'Benga) to compensate for that. This matter is just made all the more serious with every new species you introduce into the mix. And of course there's more than just information, there's also the need for specialized tools, medicines, treatment facilities, etc.
How about language? Yes, we were told that every Trek communicator in TNG had a universal translator installed... hence why we thought everyone spoke English. But isn't that a little silly? Doesn't it make more sense to have the crew able to communicate with each other, without difficulties, without the use of a technology (which may very well fail at some point)? And "have everyone learn English" isn't really a good answer to the question, is it?
What about more subtle environmental issues? Say, lighting. One race might have vision which is more sensitive in one range, and another might be more sensitive to another range.
Humans tend not to react well to blue lighting, for instance. Blue lights make for good indicators, but not for actual ambient or direct illumination. (And before you start saying "but the sky is blue," realize that it looks blue because the blue light is scattered by the atmosphere while the other wavelengths make it to the surface unscattered... so if anything, we see the blue sky but have less blue in the actual visible spectrum of sunlight.)
What if another race is most sensitive with blue light, and yellow light (which we tend to prefer) makes them ill, like blue does with us? Would you put both species on the same ship and make both wear goggles in order to avoid throwing up all over each other?
And, of course, you then get into cultural issues. Trek played with that on occasion, but only in very simple ways. The different cultures were really different HUMAN cultures. None of them were ever particularly alien. And as a rule, the other "alien" cultures (Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, etc, etc) were portrayed as being "less enlightened" than the SoCal culture the series portrayed as being the "good" culture.
Imagine, however, a totally different culture. Perhaps, for instance, one where a female gives birth to a litter of pups once a year, and eats all of them alive except for the strongest one. And these were sentient creatures, albeit infant sentient creatures, remember.
Could we accept that?
SO...
The idea of "mixing cultures" sure sounds great, but there are real, legitimate, logical reasons to minimize the mixing of cultures if we ever face this sort of situation in reality. It's not "discriminatory." In fact, the idea that all of these cultures would have to change and conform to OUR morality and live in an environment comfortable for us (and have to wear a "Benzite Breather") is actually far more discriminatory, I think.
Re: Would You Watch a Trek Series with an all male, all human main cas
Some excellent points Cary, especially regarding the food. Think of the issues we have now regarding peanut butter in schools. I don't think you even brought up aesthetics - I wouldn't eat very well with a Klingon across the table from me eating a bowl of living worms.
Now, it makes sense that individuals might do 'exchanges' of a sort, enduring discomfort and using technology (breathers, goggles, really impressive anti-allergens, etc) in order to function aboard a ship crewed primarily by another species. But it doesn't make sense to serve permanently aboard a vessel that will always be uncomfortable for you.
Some excellent points Cary, especially regarding the food. Think of the issues we have now regarding peanut butter in schools. I don't think you even brought up aesthetics - I wouldn't eat very well with a Klingon across the table from me eating a bowl of living worms.
Now, it makes sense that individuals might do 'exchanges' of a sort, enduring discomfort and using technology (breathers, goggles, really impressive anti-allergens, etc) in order to function aboard a ship crewed primarily by another species. But it doesn't make sense to serve permanently aboard a vessel that will always be uncomfortable for you.
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