Uniform Differences

[SonicRanger]

^^^

Patterns are illogical. Solid colors are the logical choice.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

Why would it be lame?

Or lamé?

It would be gold lame. Or avocado green lame as it's known among Trekkies.

 

[M'Sharak]

...

...

I read through the entire thread (as it was being written) which you refer to, and either I missed the post showing the shield-in-weaving or it wasn't really there...

I remember that in the old board software it was quite easy to link to a specific post inside a specific thread. I haven't tried that since the change-over, but it seems likely that it wouldn't be much different... so perhaps you can link to the specific post?

My mistake. While it was mentioned in a post fairly early on in that thread, the discussion I was thinking of took place in a different thread, starting with this post. (No one could see the delta-shield pattern on Spock's tunic there, either.) There are at least a couple of links to pages containing high-resolution copies of the poster images. Have a look and see what you think.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Patterns are illogical. Solid colors are the logical choice.

Well then, they're being illogical.

Imagine that.

 

[SonicRanger]

Patterns are illogical. Solid colors are the logical choice.

Well then, they're being illogical.

Imagine that.

That's the new film's explanation for why Vulcans disapprove of Starfleet: illogical uniforms.

 

[I Grok Spock]

(No one could see the delta-shield pattern on Spock's tunic there, either.)

Spock's tunic has an IDIC emblem pattern, courtesy Lincoln Enterprises.

 

[chrinFinity]

Who ever said the Human race was logical?

 

[datas_cat_spot]

While I think the uniforms being made of little chevrons is Superman Returns lame, it's not that far a stretch. And it doesn't look as stupid as having a camo pattern made up of the GIJoe logo. The approach they seem to be taking with TOS unis is just layered athletic wear like Nike, Adidas, or Under Armor. The chevron is also a minor detail you'll barely see onscreen.

Why would it be lame?

I said it would be "Superman Returns lame" because Superman's suit in that film was made of little s's. As for why it would be lame, I don't see a military organization making it's uniforms out of it's symbol. It seems silly to me, like if the army made it camo patterns out of patriotic stars. I then go into a possible reason why it would thematically fit the costumes of TOS and be less silly.

It was a diamond shape actually. Some promo shots had the "S" logos but that proved too expensive so it's not what was used in the movie.

I don't think the delta shield is weaved into the fabric, it's probably silk screened on.

Probably. Like the Spidey suit.

 

[Therin of Andor]

In order to create a new weave, you have to createa new weaving process and, in most cases, create new weaving machinery to produce it. And it's not a trivial task to come up with a weaving pattern.

Huh?

Have you never watched a machine knitting machine making fair isle patterns? Or an embroidery machine monogramming towels to order "while you wait'? Before modern computers they were doing complicated designs with punchcards.

But it's been computer-aided design in the industry for decades. Simply scan in the pattern you want and the machine weaves to your instruction. Paramount would have been ordering bolts of material in numerous colours and weights, so it would be quite cost effective. No more tricky than ordering material to clothe an Olympic team of athletes.

For ST II, the costumers made hundreds of trapunto collars on the uniform undershirts. It was a unique way of sewing fabric with a hollow needle that filled the fabric with fibrous cotton wadding as it sewed. An extravagance, sure, but it gave a unique look that fans found tricky to copy. And that's part of the fun of movie making. To make your costumes look "not off the rack".

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Why would it be lame?

I said it would be "Superman Returns lame" because Superman's suit in that film was made of little s's. As for why it would be lame, I don't see a military organization making it's uniforms out of it's symbol. It seems silly to me, like if the army made it camo patterns out of patriotic stars. I then go into a possible reason why it would thematically fit the costumes of TOS and be less silly.

It was a diamond shape actually. Some promo shots had the "S" logos but that proved too expensive so it's not what was used in the movie.

I don't think the delta shield is weaved into the fabric, it's probably silk screened on.

Probably. Like the Spidey suit.

So far, I've seen this evident on the Saldana picture... but I haven't been able to make it out in any other image. (The "TrekMovie" reference seems to draw it's conclusion from that same picture).

SO... is it possible that this isn't the "official uniform" but is some sort of special costume? It's sleeveless... and has a different "cut" than the other shots I've seen so far. Maybe this is her version of the "Kirk Wrap-around?"

If it's a costume where there are only two or three copies (all for her) ever made... rather than something used on every costume made for every actor in every scene... well, it's possible.

Also, it's very obvious that the image is an embossment of some sort. It actually looks like it's silkscreened, but could be "hot-iron-embossed" as I suggested earlier.

Looking closely at her costume, I'm not convinced that this is a duty uniform at all anyway. I've seen the "recolored" image... but there's nothing I see in this image that makes me believe that she's wearing red with a black collar... in fact, looking at her collar in that image makes me think "brown fabric with metallic gold threads in it."

I'd be really interested in seeing a similarly blown-up image from the second set of images. All I know for CERTAIN is that the Spock costume's collar doesn't have the "highlight threads" that hers does in that shot, and that his costume doesn't have the little "delta embossments" that hers does, either. So, the evidence might be in high-res images of the second four posters (all of which, I think, are in "standard Starfleet" costumes, aren't they?)

 

[Jon1701]

^ You can see it on the hi-res images, Cary. Check out the official site.

http://www.startrekmovie.com/

On Chekov, Sulu & McCoy its clear as day. I'm not so sure Spock is wearing his uniform in his shot. I did think so at the time, but it looks one-piece to me - not the two piece versions we've been told about.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

^ You can see it on the hi-res images, Cary. Check out the official site.

http://www.startrekmovie.com/

On Chekov, Sulu & McCoy its clear as day. I'm not so sure Spock is wearing his uniform in his shot. I did think so at the time, but it looks one-piece to me - not the two piece versions we've been told about.

Yeah, actually I could only make the "shield" out as the images fade in... but a quick download and a contrast-filtering showed it clearly enough.

SO... then...

1) Spock is wearing something besides a "Starfleet uniform?"

2) Spock is wearing ONE VERSION of the uniform to be seen (bringing into question the whole "timelines" question, perhaps)?

3) Spock is wearing a "test costume" in a photo taken at a different time (before the rest of the costumes were done)?

Any other ideas?

 

[Jon1701]

I'd go with #1, with a hint of #3.

Given that the main focus is the ears, eyebrows and bowl haircut they probably didn't give too much thought as to what he was wearing underneath.

Could have been wearing a dress...

 

[M'Sharak]

^ You can see it on the hi-res images, Cary. Check out the official site.

http://www.startrekmovie.com/

On Chekov, Sulu & McCoy its clear as day. I'm not so sure Spock is wearing his uniform in his shot. I did think so at the time, but it looks one-piece to me - not the two piece versions we've been told about.

Yeah, actually I could only make the "shield" out as the images fade in... but a quick download and a contrast-filtering showed it clearly enough.

It's pretty easy to make out in the Pegg/Scotty one, as I recall.

 

[datas_cat_spot]

Ok, I threw this together real quick. All the patterns as "exposed" as I could get them. I think Spock is wearing the same outfit. The pattern just isn't as apparent due to the lighting.

 

[number6]

^^Or it could be photoshopped just like the delta shields in the eyes.
I prefer to wait until there are some "real" pictures before getting my panties in a twist over some artsy publicity posters.

 

[PixelMagic]

Ok, I threw this together real quick. All the patterns as "exposed" as I could get them. I think Spock is wearing the same outfit. The pattern just isn't as apparent due to the lighting.

You know, after seeing that, I think the delta shields may indeed be woven into the fabric, instead of silk screened like I said earlier. Whether logical or not, I think it looks awesome.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Ok, I threw this together real quick. All the patterns as "exposed" as I could get them. I think Spock is wearing the same outfit. The pattern just isn't as apparent due to the lighting.

You know, after seeing that, I think the delta shields may indeed be woven into the fabric, instead of silk screened like I said earlier. Whether logical or not, I think it looks awesome.

I keep thinking "why?" It's a major expense (if it's really there) which serves no good purpose, either in reality (seriously, will ANYONE but the most hardcore "living in mom's basement type" really care about this... or NOTICE this... if the movie's actually worth paying attention to?) or in-universe?

Granted, it sure does look like it's there but it COULD be baloney... it just seems like a senseless, pointless, thing, serving only to help the self-congratulation of the costuming person (whoever that may be).

I'm a huge fan of things... well... making sense. This makes no sense. So I'll admit it... I'm really HOPEFUL that it's not real (any more than the "eyes" thing) but I'm not convinced either way.

 

[Vektor]

It certainly looks to me like the delta shields are actually part of the fabric, whether woven into it or silkscreened or whatever. I don't believe they were Photoshopped after the fact. That suggests they must have found a relatively cheap and easy way to do it despite all the "expert" opinions to the contrary. I just don't see any way to justify doing it otherwise considering how unlikely it is that anyone will even be able to see it in the actual film.

 

[number6]

It certainly looks to me like the delta shields are actually part of the fabric, whether woven into it or silkscreened or whatever. I don't believe they were Photoshopped after the fact. That suggests they must have found a relatively cheap and easy way to do it despite all the "expert" opinions to the contrary. I just don't see any way to justify doing it otherwise considering how unlikely it is that anyone will even be able to see it in the actual film.

Which is why I am still more inclined to believe that these "costume patterns" are probably exclusive to the promo posters and not necessarily what we will see onscreen.