number6
Vice Admiral
With700+ hours of Trek, I've never seen a conformist on that show, or an Hassidic Helmsman... Just loads of sombreros.
TREK future anti-gay?
- Thread starter RobertScorpio
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With700+ hours of Trek, I've never seen a conformist on that show, or an Hassidic Helmsman... Just loads of sombreros.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
ci ci senior
you 21st century people and your labels...
I think it is a different than we think, I think by then they would have a medicine that would make you straight if you wanted to and a lot of people wanting to conform to societal norms find it easier to visit Dr. McCoy and get a hypo spray of "gay-away" than to deal with being gay. Probably also the attitudes towards gays are more like far east cultures where they don't make a big deal out of being gay and being gay is okay, but again there aren't very many gay people around because it is easier to "hypo spray" the "gay-away". With a lot of the people who are gay by medical tests removing their gayness by hypo there are less repressed gay homophobes so tolerance for gay folks is much better and less of a big deal as it is these days.
Amen, glad someone else has thought of it, ive also just assumed homosexuallity was cured by the 24th century, why wouldnt it be? its a chemical inballance? just always been 2 afraid to say it, glad you had the courage to say so.
Before someone says it im not homophobic I was best man at a gay wedding.
A lot of our regular viewing... Little Britain, Doctor Who, Coronation Street, Torchwood, The Tudors, and no doubt others that aren't coming to mind at the moment. What's your point?
Your statements in this regard are nonetheless homophobic and bigoted.
Or maybe Bev just doesn't like girls, and was trying to let Odan 'off the hook' as gently as possible. If I had a girlfriend who became a man like that, I couldn't stay with them, but I also wouldn't just kick them to the curb, I'd try to be as caring as I knew how.
As for Trek in general: I always assumed it's not an issue for humans by then. Every time they deal with sexuality, they use alien cultures as a metaphor (the Trill, the J'naii from "The Outcast", etc.) And they always do it pretty well, I think. This is all we will ever get, as to a "gay episode", anyway; if it's not an issue for humanity, they'd always have to use an alien angle. Since T'Pol and Phlox were the only aliens on ENT, for example, we would never see such an episode there. Even in the other shows, such as DS9, they must always use aliens as a metaphor, since with humanity there would be no story to use.
About the J'naii, though: I think they were almost as much of an attack against those (like Kinsey, for example) who keep saying that there is no such thing as gay or straight, that everybody is bi, etc. In J'naii society, any expression of unique gender characteristics is forbidden - everybody is the same, so to speak. It's just that philosophy taken to the extreme. I am probably not explaining this very well (wouldn't be the first time
) - am I being understood here? I mean, it's all well and good for characters like Jack Harkness to be attracted to everybody and everything and all that, but I don't think everybody is or should be like that.
Homophobic? Hardly. Meredith is making a simple, rather obvious observation about the human condition: human beings will do almost anything to conform to social norms. Assuming that, at some point in the future, sexual orientation will become a trait that can be medically detected and subsequently altered--and, yes, this is a very big assumption, and relies on the idea that sexual orientation is something immutable you are "born with"--it stands very much to reason that parents of gay children will do anything in their power to "correct" that "imperfection" because "our child doesn't need that hardship." Note the 80-90% decrease in the incidence of Down Syndrome among infants in the past generation, because the vast majority of parents abort any child who shows signs of being Downs-positive. Parents just don't want to deal with kids who are in any way "unusual" (or, to use the word in the archaic sense, "queer").
It's a tragic commentary on humanity that we are so controlled by social norms... but it seems to be the truth. Unless societal acceptance of homosexuality wildly outpaces advances in medical science and genetic engineering, I would be very much surprised if homosexuality as a trait survived into the 24th Century. (Again, assuming that sexual orientation is a biological fact, rather than a lifestyle choice.)
Indeed, seeing the captain of the next Enterprise be confronted with and have to come to terms with the fact that humanity essentially "bred out" an entire subset of its population sometime in the 21st or early 22nd Century could make for a great hour of Trek.
For Meredith to observe this and make such a projection--without any endorsement either way, mind you--is no more bigoted than for her to point out that rascism is not likely to end anytime soon. Your knee-jerk reaction, Chemahkuu, is indicative of a far stronger prejudice.
I think the Trek world would have to be pro alternative lifestyles in the future. If they can put aside racism, nationalism, regionalism, and sexism, and put together a unified world government then accepting other people's sexuality should be a piece of cake.
However, the lens that we see the Star Trek world through haven't been especially gay friendly, at least in regard to televised Trek. I would say that's more due to narrow minded business people who are worried going into the subject would affect the amount of money they would be making.
I don't condone that line of thinking, but I think it should be noted that the Star Trek universe itself is innocent on this one. It's the 20th/21st century people that are to blame.
However, the lens that we see the Star Trek world through haven't been especially gay friendly, at least in regard to televised Trek. I would say that's more due to narrow minded business people who are worried going into the subject would affect the amount of money they would be making.
I don't condone that line of thinking, but I think it should be noted that the Star Trek universe itself is innocent on this one. It's the 20th/21st century people that are to blame.
Yeah great, that's what society needs, a cure for being gay. I think I'd be much happier with a cure for intolerance of others, or perhaps a cure for people having an interest in the way other people that have nothing remotely to do with themselves live their lives. At the heart of Star Trek, people are accepted for who they are, not what they do in their private lives. 'Curing' people for something that isn't even a medical problem, but just a minority way of living life? Sorry, but bullshit. I wouldn't want to be fucking cured for being gay.
Preach it!
My sister and I inherited a genetic disease from my mother's side, and believe me, sometimes I wish I'd been aborted after seeing my mum, an uncle and now an auntie suffer from it. My auntie's two young boys might have it too. I think pre-natal screening for disease is a good, sensible thing to do - some people can handle bringing up babies, some can't. For others they have to weigh up the decision of whether than can have a baby knowing that they may inherit a disability from them. Comparing this to pre-natal screening for homosexuality is just frankly so insulting that I'm glad we've got an internet between us.
I think homosexuality is more accepted than it was 10 years ago. And 10 years ago, homosexuality was more accepted than 10 years before that. And so on. Hopefully by the 24th century, it will be bigots that have died out, and anybody else that wishes to stop people living their life however they choose.
Wow, way to completely (deliberately?) miss my point, thus allowing you to accuse me of homophobia and intolerance.
For the record, my proposition is that parents do not want their children to grow up with any "unusual" conditions, be they different cogntive abilities, different physical abilities, different sexual orientation, or any other major differences. Further, I submitted that, if so enabled, parents will do anything in their power to prevent those differences from manifesting in their children. Therefore, because homosexuality is an unusual condition (and most parents do not want their children to be gay), if so enabled, parents would bring about the end of human homosexuality within a generation. Period. I attached no valuative claim to that, and neither did Meredith. It was a prediction, not an endorsement.
Now, Seven, please take your labelling and your bigotry and your weak-kneed threats and GTFO.
Psycho much???
These posters really should watch the referenced Riker episode. The whole show was a lesson in tolerance of a person's sexual orientation.
- Those who were sexually different were treated as mentally ill
- They were driven underground (read: in the closet)
- It was called a subversive lifestyle and anti-societal and anti-family (geez, sounds familiar)
- Riker and the alien break the rules by having contact and (gods forbid) caring for each other
Perhaps the above posters should be placed in a few photon torpedo shells and fired toward the planet in the episode.
Over the years I've noticed how bigots talk trash, then claim they were just being logical. Hitler and others used this same trick.
So my suggestion is for the haters to GTFO.
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...and you think the human race is tolerant of differing sexual orientations? Are you insane? I mean, you're welcome to hope for that shift to happen in the future, but to claim that it's here now is absurd and the hope that it will be here before its too late is merely that--a hope, with much evidence and intertia going against it. Telling anyone who observes that humanity still has a long way to go before becoming what you want it to be that they're bigots is just as closed-minded as all but the most virulent homophobia.
Ah, at last, my day has come. The Great Glorious Hypnotoad has smiled down upon me. Thank you, Squiggy. July 3rd shall hereafter be a day celebrated in my heart.
Without further ado:
Gay marriage is now legal in Canada and in a few other parts of the world; civil partnerships, which are pretty near marriage by another name, are the law of the land in the UK. That would have been unthinkable a few years ago, but in the places where it's happening, life is going merrily along and the institution of marriage remains happily undestroyed. Even some parts of the USA are coping with it now.
Gay characters in popular media have gone from comic relief to tragic victims to just plain folks like everyone else. Granted, a lot of the gay and lesbian couples I know are probably still careful about making public displays of affection in some places, but when you can have John Barrowman and James Marsters having a full-on snog on TV in Torchwood things have obviously changed a lot.
You're right: perhaps I am being pessimistic regarding the capacity for human beings to change their attitudes towards certain facets of human diversity. Living in the USA--even in Minnesota, which is a pretty liberal zone--is not giving me the full perspective on how quickly homosexuality is going from being seen as akin to leprosy to being generally accepted, even celebrated, and, perhaps, one day soon, to something nobody cares much about. Things are definitely changing--a lot, and very quickly.
However, medical science is learning new things very quickly, too--from what I understand of the world bioscience community, nowhere is this more evident than here in the U.S.--and I suppose what the question really comes down to is this: Will the human race reach universal or near-universal of homosexuality before medical science enables that same human race to annihilate homosexuals from the gene pool?
Frankly, I don't know, and I don't profess to have any hard evidence one way or the other. I jumped to Meredith's defense only because she was being charged with bigotry just for bringing up the question. Of course, then I was compared to Hitler. Twice. Sigh.
Anyhow, point is, Steve, you may very well be right. In four hundred years, yes, it is possible that the LGBT community will have been wiped from the spectrum of human diversity. But, as you argue, there is every other reason, unfolding right here in the present day, for us to envision a future in which the gay community will be thriving beyond the dreams of today's rainbow movement--and far beyond the very limited scope of Star Trek's sexual vision. Please don't think me a pessimist for being uncertain which future we will achieve.
BBC: Autism link to 'geek genes'
Wired: The Geek Syndrome
so if someone came up to you with an injection which would "cure" you of your nerdy attributes, including your love of Trek, would you take it?
fuck conformist intolerance, it's a hellava lot easier to change a mind than to rewrite a genetic code.
Wired: The Geek Syndrome
so if someone came up to you with an injection which would "cure" you of your nerdy attributes, including your love of Trek, would you take it?
fuck conformist intolerance, it's a hellava lot easier to change a mind than to rewrite a genetic code.
Your friend has a valid point. Star Trek, like a lot of TV aimed at men, is pretty cowardly about showing male homosexuality which certainly reveals the motive for showing lesbianism has nothing to do with being "enlightened."
Star Trek isn't anti-gay, it's just chicken.
It really is not that radical. Lost depicted one of its major recurring characters (Tom Friendly, aka Zeke) as gay, for no reason other than that they wanted him to have some sexual orientation and why not? Gay or straight, it had no real impact on his role in the story.
Also, there were supposedly a male gay couple on the island, a couple guys in the background. There was one brief scene that sorta kinda confirmed it.
Pushing Daisies is going to reveal that a major recurring character is gay in the upcoming season:
The deadpan mortician that Ned and Emerson are continually visiting is actually gay - which I love because there's nothing about his personality that says "gay" in the slightest. Mr. Friendly on Lost was a similar "surprise."
BSG depicts lesbian Cylons, but like Star Trek, seems scared to show a couple of guys rolling around in bed together. Can't recall any implications of gay males on that show and no, Gaeta doesn't count tho I have my suspicions about some of Baltar's male groupies.
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