Spoilers Star Trek: Starfleet Academy 1x01 – “Kids These Days”

[Danja]

Berman famously was extremely sexist

Just ask Denise Crosby, Gates McFadden, and Terry Farrell

 

[jamesteakirk]

Just ask Denise Crosby, Gates McFadden, and Terry Farrell

If so, and he actually committed a crime, he should be investigated and convicted. I believe the women - let them come forward under oath. I support the women.

 

[Michael]

If so, and he actually committed a crime, he should be investigated and convicted. I believe the women - let them come forward under oath. I support the women.

Who said anything about any crime having been committed by Berman? There’s multiple stories underscoring what a sexist view he had or has, none of which are relevant in any criminal capacity. Should we as a society only call out sexism when it crosses the threshold of criminal behavior?

 

[Maurice]

Do you people even know what a spitball is?

It's a pitch banned in Major League Baseball since 1920.

 

[jamesteakirk]

Who said anything about any crime having been committed by Berman? There’s multiple stories underscoring what a sexist view he had or has, none of which are relevant in any criminal capacity. Should we as a society only call out sexism when it crosses the threshold of criminal behavior?

So what’s he guilty of? Boorishness? Ribaldry? Innuendo? How do you eliminate these? How should he have been dealt with? Perhaps a smear campaign? Whispers - as we see here?

Denise, Gates and Terry either have legitimate gripes or they don’t. Anecdotal rumors are worthless. They either testify or they don’t. Hearsay has no value. Rumors carry no weight.

There are tons of gossipy stories out there about Denise Crosby - who quit TNG after Season 1 “to spend more time with her boyfriend”. Really? Are we supposed to believe that?

I totally respect your right to express your own opinions. Women who are harassed and abused should be believed.

 

[jamesteakirk]

It's a pitch banned in Major League Baseball since 1920.

School kids would masticate a small piece of paper into a tiny ball and shoot it using mouth air pressure through the empty chamber of a ball-point pen. You never did this? My classmates did this and I did, too. 1960s elementary school hijinks.

 

[Maurice]

He used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks. Dramatic irony, bathos, puns, parody, hyperbole, litotes and satire.

 

[Kraig]

School kids would masticate a small piece of paper into a tiny ball and shoot it using mouth air pressure through the empty chamber of a ball-point pen. You never did this? My classmates did this and I did, too. 1960s elementary school hijinks.

When I was a kid, in the 1960s, it was called a spit wad. At least that was what we called it in Central California, and we used the straws provided in the cafeteria.

 

[cooleddie74]

They were called spitballs in my part of Virginia.

 

[Michael]

So what’s he guilty of? Boorishness? Ribaldry? Innuendo? How do you eliminate these? How should he have been dealt with? Perhaps a smear campaign? Whispers - as we see here?

Denise, Gates and Terry either have legitimate gripes or they don’t. Anecdotal rumors are worthless. They either testify or they don’t. Hearsay has no value. Rumors carry no weight.

There are tons of gossipy stories out there about Denise Crosby - who quit TNG after Season 1 “to spend more time with her boyfriend”. Really? Are we supposed to believe that?

I totally respect your right to express your own opinions. Women who are harassed and abused should be believed.

I have no clue why you are so hung up about criminal prosecution. You don't need “anecdotal rumors” or “whispers” to see how putting characters like Seven of Nine or T’Pol in ridiculously tight, uncomfortable catsuits was a sexist move. As were the inclusion of the infamous decon chamber scenes. But also, if you truly think women “should be believed”, you’ll trust Terry Farrell when she’s telling stories about how inappropriately he talked to about her body. To criticize someone as sexist/misogynist doesn’t have to do with any legal determinations, it’s just calling them out for being sexists. This insistence on criminal prosecution is especially preposterous when you realize how unlikely it is that cases of sexual misconduct are successfully prosecuted in our sexist judicial systems.

 

[Danja]

You don't need “anecdotal rumors” or “whispers” to see how putting characters like Seven of Nine or T’Pol in ridiculously tight, uncomfortable catsuits was a sexist move.

Jeri Ryan wore a catsuit and CORSET for four seasons on Voyager.

 

[Nerys Myk]

When I was a kid, in the 1960s, it was called a spit wad. At least that was what we called it in Central California, and we used the straws provided in the cafeteria.

Both terms were used in California and Texas where I went to school.

 

[Maurice]

That initial spitball question was condescending; ergo, my suitably smart-arsed reply.

 

[jamesteakirk]

Jeri Ryan wore a catsuit and CORSET for four seasons on Voyager.

What is to be done about this? Bring back the pillory? Stocks in the town square?

Both terms were used in California and Texas where I went to school.

Yay for California and Texas! Two of my favorite states.

 

[jamesteakirk]

When I was a kid, in the 1960s, it was called a spit wad. At least that was what we called it in Central California, and we used the straws provided in the cafeteria.

Straws were much better - higher velocity and less jamming. I salute your superior ordinance!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

When I was a kid, in the 1960s, it was called a spit wad. At least that was what we called it in Central California, and we used the straws provided in the cafeteria.

Same, in Kentucky in the 1970s and 1980s.

 

[jamesteakirk]

I have no clue why you are so hung up about criminal prosecution. You don't need “anecdotal rumors” or “whispers” to see how putting characters like Seven of Nine or T’Pol in ridiculously tight, uncomfortable catsuits was a sexist move. As were the inclusion of the infamous decon chamber scenes. But also, if you truly think women “should be believed”, you’ll trust Terry Farrell when she’s telling stories about how inappropriately he talked to about her body. To criticize someone as sexist/misogynist doesn’t have to do with any legal determinations, it’s just calling them out for being sexists. This insistence on criminal prosecution is especially preposterous when you realize how unlikely it is that cases of sexual misconduct are successfully prosecuted in our sexist judicial systems.

Berman put these women in revealing garb in order to satisfy the Trek viewing audience - factually calculated to be overwhelmingly made up of boys and men from 12 to 30 years old. Berman needed eyeballs on screens. Not hard to understand. Now one might quibble over his

 

[jamesteakirk]

Berman put these women in revealing garb in order to satisfy the Trek viewing audience - factually calculated to be overwhelmingly made up of boys and men from 12 to 30 years old. Berman needed eyeballs on screens. Not hard to understand. Now one might quibble over his…

…artistic choices, and costume design is certainly an artistic choice, but are people (not you, of course) bringing up negative Bergman stories because of ulterior motives, or because he really was a despicable person?

Excursus: I believe that if I own a property I can alter it as I see fit or I can hire other people to play around with it as they see fit. If you people disagree, I totally respect your opinions, but if someone OUTSIDE OF THIS DISCUSSION GROUP disagrees then those people are out to lunch. Remember, I’m not talking about any of you people, whom I totally respect. I’m talking about non-members of this forum.

I grow fatigued. I shall pause my participation in this august assembly and return in March.

For The Federation!

 

[fireproof78]

Berman put these women in revealing garb in order to satisfy the Trek viewing audience - factually calculated to be overwhelmingly made up of boys and men from 12 to 30 years old. Berman needed eyeballs on screens. Not hard to understand. Now one might quibble over his

That's a bullshit reason if so because Star Trek fandom often praises itself for being among the intelligencia, the elite smart people, not ladened with such crude devices.

because he really was a despicable person?

He was not someone to admire.

 

[Danja]

That's a bullshit reason if so because Star Trek fandom often praises itself for being among the intelligencia, the elite smart people, not ladened with such crude devices.

Berman was not above using "crude devices" :