The Longer Running Times

[Michael]

I’m wondering, why is it that after three live action spin-offs in this current era of Trek shows they have finally decided to take advantage of the fact that episodes of streaming shows can be longer than the broadcast standard 45-ish minutes and made the episodes of Starfleet Academy clocking in around 60+ minutes. It becomes especially jarring when you remember that some episodes of Discovery clocked in around only 30-ish minutes.

Mind you, I’m not complaining, as I enjoy getting more Trek every week. I’m just wondering what about this show is different that made them decide to go for the full hour. Showrunner Noga Landau said in the Collider interview the other day that there are virtually no deleted scenes for the show and that they put everything they film in the finished episodes. Does that perhaps mean the other shows’ episodes could have been longer as well but that they were more aggressive in cutting the fat in the editing?

For those who are knowledgable about these things: Is there a substantial difference in writing a script for a 60+ minutes show versus writing one for only 40+ minutes of runtime? Is that something a writer needs to be aware of when they write their script?

Also, interestingly, I don’t think I would necessarily say I even notice the extended runtime when watching the episodes. Episode three was the first where I thought a tighter edit could have helped to make the episode better.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I think the general rule of thumb is approximately one page of script to one minute of screen time.

 

[bdub76]

A lot of the shows I have been watching that have come out recently are running up to an hour or more in length. Check out Welcome to Derry as an example. I see this with shows that are around 8 episodes or less.

In the past, shows have been around 42-48 minutes long with the rest of the time available for ads. This is why I pay for streaming without ads, especially with shows that are or have aired on television.

It's also bad for sitcoms. I'm rewatching Who's the Boss, and the show's episodes are about 22 minutes for a half hour show. That's 8 minutes of ads.

Watching TV without ads is why I cut the cord to begin with back in 2013.

 

[firehawk12]

I’m wondering, why is it that after three live action spin-offs in this current era of Trek shows they have finally decided to take advantage of the fact that episodes of streaming shows can be longer than the broadcast standard 45-ish minutes and made the episodes of Starfleet Academy clocking in around 60+ minutes. It becomes especially jarring when you remember that some episodes of Discovery clocked in around only 30-ish minutes.

Mind you, I’m not complaining, as I enjoy getting more Trek every week. I’m just wondering what about this show is different that made them decide to go for the full hour. Showrunner Noga Landau said in the Collider interview the other day that there are virtually no deleted scenes for the show and that they put everything they film in the finished episodes. Does that perhaps mean the other shows’ episodes could have been longer as well but that they were more aggressive in cutting the fat in the editing?

For those who are knowledgable about these things: Is there a substantial difference in writing a script for a 60+ minutes show versus writing one for only 40+ minutes of runtime? Is that something a writer needs to be aware of when they write their script?

Also, interestingly, I don’t think I would necessarily say I even notice the extended runtime when watching the episodes. Episode three was the first where I thought a tighter edit could have helped to make the episode better.

Measure of a Man had a longer cut that they put together on the blurays, but most of the TNG episodes have outtakes and cut material that you can see on the discs. Episodes back then were around 50 minutes, but they still had to trim.

Not having to be cut for TV allows them to be longer - although funny enough, Star Trek airs on TV in Canada so someone somewhere is trying to fit ads into these new shows that run long.

 

[Michael]

Thanks for your responses, guys! I appreciate it. I guess what I’m most interested in is to know why they decided for Starfleet Academy to finally be the show where episodes are allowed to run for 60+ minutes, when it appears as if they would have been able to do that since Discovery, which was almost ten years ago.

Is that just a personal preference of one of the new people on the production team? Did Alex Kurtzman change his mind? Is this something that was mandated by Paramount? Or is it basically accidental and just something that happened because they decided to never cut any fat from the episodes or scripts?

I guess none of that can really be answered right now in the absence of any official statement from the producers. Still interesting to think about the implications for how the show feels. So far it seems like they are using the longer runtime to have more or longer character moments. The show has a relatively large ensemble cast and the added time probably gives them more room per episode to flesh them out.

 

[bdub76]

The most obvious reason to have the shorter run times would be plans to show the show on network television with ads. If you know the show won't be on network television, and you only have 8 episodes to tell your story, then having longer run times gives your story more room to breathe. It makes sense.

If you look at how many episodes were in STO and then VOY and then finally for streaming, it has continuously dropped. The first season of Discovery had 15 episodes, but now we're seeing shows running with only 8. This also means the crew in general is constantly looking for work.

 

[firehawk12]

Thanks for your responses, guys! I appreciate it. I guess what I’m most interested in is to know why they decided for Starfleet Academy to finally be the show where episodes are allowed to run for 60+ minutes, when it appears as if they would have been able to do that since Discovery, which was almost ten years ago.

Is that just a personal preference of one of the new people on the production team? Did Alex Kurtzman change his mind? Is this something that was mandated by Paramount? Or is it basically accidental and just something that happened because they decided to never cut any fat from the episodes or scripts?

I guess none of that can really be answered right now in the absence of any official statement from the producers. Still interesting to think about the implications for how the show feels. So far it seems like they are using the longer runtime to have more or longer character moments. The show has a relatively large ensemble cast and the added time probably gives them more room per episode to flesh them out.

It could be trying to meet certain metrics, like how Netflix will tell producers exactly how long to make their shows and what plot elements to include when based on how they know people are watching shows on the service.

It doesn't feel like they necessarily have any limitations other than budget (forcing a shorter season of S5 for SNW), so it's probably safe to assume that it's more of a creative decision than a production one.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm really glad they've decided not to stick to TV runtimes. They've realized the future is streaming, not broadcast.

 

[Uncle Sock]

For those who are knowledgable about these things: Is there a substantial difference in writing a script for a 60+ minutes show versus writing one for only 40+ minutes of runtime? Is that something a writer needs to be aware of when they write their script?

I wanted to respond to this specifically. A writer should aim for the new 60-minute runtime, because handing in a 45-minute script would usually be too short. That said, scripts rarely exist in isolation. Even a single credited writer’s work goes through multiple rounds of revisions with the showrunner, producers, and writing staff.

So while it’s important for the writer to consider the runtime, the final length is ultimately overseen by the showrunner or producers. If a script comes in too short, they’ll either ask the writer to revise it or adjust it themselves.

I’m not a Hollywood insider, so this is just my understanding.

 

[Fateor]

I'm really glad they've decided not to stick to TV runtimes. They've realized the future is streaming, not broadcast.

You can have your cake and eat it too in this case.

IE make a show for streaming and then later sell it to broadcast networks for additional cash.

 

[camdudetenger2018]

imagine if the running times of starfleet academy was like stranger things season 4 and 5 style

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

An interesting comment from Noga in one of her interviews is that very little, if nothing, is being cut from the episodes as they are happy with them and there is no longer any "commercial" (see what I did) impetus to do so. In essence, it's as long as it needs to be to tell that story. Which is fine by me and interesting in that we count episodes to compare the current 10 to the old 26, but our current 10s are roughly the equivalent of 16 of the old ones.

 

[Michael]

^ Yeah, that’s the interview I’m referring to in the opening post. And I agree, it’s cool that they were able to have that freedom. Just makes me wonder why previous streaming Trek didn't have that.

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

^ Yeah, that’s the interview I’m referring to in the opening post. And I agree, it’s cool that they were able to have that freedom. Just makes me wonder why previous streaming Trek didn't have that.

The Discos were quite variable though overall the trend / average was much shorter. S.2 has a 39 minute episode and a 64 minute one. SNW seems to go from around 48 to 63. I notice season finales are sometimes longer than openers.

ETA - I don't know whether recaps play a part in this variance at all

 

[Firebird]

The Discos were quite variable though overall the trend / average was much shorter. S.2 has a 39 minute episode and a 64 minute one. SNW seems to go from around 48 to 63. I notice season finales are sometimes longer than openers.

ETA - I don't know whether recaps play a part in this variance at all

The documentary episode in SNW’s third season was about 40 minutes, and it felt like it was missing an act of story.

 

[Michael]

The Discos were quite variable though overall the trend / average was much shorter. S.2 has a 39 minute episode and a 64 minute one. SNW seems to go from around 48 to 63. I notice season finales are sometimes longer than openers.

ETA - I don't know whether recaps play a part in this variance at all

Good point about recaps! That might play a part in explaining the variable lengths of Discovery episodes. In season one there’s even an episode that’s merely 37 minutes long.

Looking that up just now I realize how during the final season of Discovery the individual lengths of the episodes already got really long, with half of them coming very close to being 60 minutes. So maybe the episode lengths of Starfleet Academy aren’t really all that unusual, but just continuing a trend they already began when Discovery ended.

 

[tenmei]

This weeks episode was the first that made me wonder what a more pruned typical 42 minute version of the episode would be like. And unfortunately, I'd probably begin with some of the flashbacks

 

[Michael]

Yeah, the flashbacks were a neat idea, but weren’t really necessary in terms of the narrative. Plus they really didn’t look all that great. They were very obviously running around in the autumnal forest wildlife of Canada. The only thing I did appreciate about the flashbacks was getting to see Jay-Den’s brother. But beyond that we didn’t really need it.

 

[Aragorn]

If you look at how many episodes were in STO and then VOY and then finally for streaming, it has continuously dropped. The first season of Discovery had 15 episodes, but now we're seeing shows running with only 8. This also means the crew in general is constantly looking for work.

Christina Chong's contract didn't allow her to do other TV. I can't find the YouTube video where she said that. I assume the other main actors had the same language in their contracts.

So short seasons, surprisingly low salaries compared to other TV shows, inconsistent schedules where you could go years between seasons, and limiting your work options.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Christina Chong has her musical career to fall back on in between seasons.