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Spoilers Starfleet Academy General Discussion Thread

Of course youll be just fine. Im glad for you. But others here have supported and cared about Star Trek for their whole lives its a downer. To see what the Genes and others started go out this way and with shows that bear little resemblance to older Trek from 1966 to 2005 is very sad to watch.

How little you know of me. I started watching Star Trek with my dad when I was 3. I saw Search for Spock at 4 and every subsequent film in theatres since that point. I have bought and read books and comics. I have bought the movies on VHS, DVD and streaming copies (along with a few UHD discs). I have sat through a lot of shit particularly in the era from 1995-2005 and have watched every episode. Star Trek is a part of my life. But I also know at the end of the day, that first, there are things in life more important than a TV show. Second, I can still watch all of it. No one will ever take that away.

You may not like what is happening now, but people do. I’m sorry that it’s not for you. Maybe it’s time to move on. Because hatewatching is not a good look for anyone.
 
To give the obvious response here - Ferengi have energy whips and are cannibals, until they aren't. Humans refuse to eat non-replicated meat in the future, until they consider it a prized delicacy. Warp speed tears apart subspace and is banned, until the plot requires us to go higher than Warp 7 to signal urgency. etc. Characters' motivations and worldviews change fairly frequently too - Worf firmly says men and women are equal in "Suddenly Human", then suddenly is misogynistic in "The Outcast".

This is all a good thing - the series needn't be beholden to one specific version of its setting or characters if that gets in the way of future stories.

But a lot of those things are little inconsistencies that have easy explanations. The energy whips just weren't used by later ferengi. Their supoosed canabilism was mentioned later. The warp 7 restrictions were just that restrictions. If something urgent came up warp 7 could be surpassed. Worfs worldview changing is normal

What can't be overlooked is changing characters or stories so much that it clearly violates canon. Ill use SNW as an example. The Spock and Chapel romance. The Spock and La'an romance. Spock melding with humans before TOS. The Gorn completely different than the Gorn in TOS. The Enterprise larger and much more advanced than the TOS version and much more luxurious than even the D. Theres a lot more. The writers didn't have to tread on these things to make a good story. Also except for Spock they had a complete crew they could have used from the cage instead of having so much of the original crew show up so early.

Up to the point before Kurtzman there were a few canon violations but most were not this glaring and obvious. Its a shame they decided to go that route.

How little you know of me. I started watching Star Trek with my dad when I was 3. I saw Search for Spock at 4 and every subsequent film in theatres since that point. I have bought and read books and comics. I have bought the movies on VHS, DVD and streaming copies (along with a few UHD discs). I have sat through a lot of shit particularly in the era from 1995-2005 and have watched every episode. Star Trek is a part of my life. But I also know at the end of the day, that first, there are things in life more important than a TV show. Second, I can still watch all of it. No one will ever take that away.

You may not like what is happening now, but people do. I’m sorry that it’s not for you. Maybe it’s time to move on. Because hatewatching is not a good look for anyone.

Im not going to "move on". Ill be here until the starship sinks in a black hole giving my reviews of each episode even if im hating it. Sorry.
 
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What can't be overlooked is changing characters or stories so much that it clearly violates canon. Ill use SNW as an example. The Spock and Chapel romance. The Spock and La'an romance. Spock melding with humans before TOS. The Gorn completely different than the Gorn in TOS. The Enterprise larger and much more advanced than the TOS version and much more luxurious than even the D. Theres a lot more. The writers didn't have to tread on these things to make a good story. Also except for Spock they had a complete crew they could have used from the cage instead of having so much of the original crew show up so early.
I think we're talking at slight cross-purposes - this is more or less what I'm arguing. SNW's use of the Gorn completely and irrevocably sucks, but it's a result of them trying (and, in my view, badly failing) to tie themselves into existing continuity - they're worshipping the idea of canon, rather than treating the franchise as a platform for storytelling.

Had they ignored pre-existing works and abandoned the idea of continuity, rather than desperately trying to refer back to it and integrate themselves with it, they would have made an entirely new hostile alien race without any regard as to whether it integrated well with TOS. That could have expanded the universe, perhaps given us fresher stories, and avoided the misuse of the Gorn (and the total impossibility of SNW's events meshing with "Arena") entirely.

That's what I mean by TOS and TNG not caring about continuity - things would happen in one episode and never be referred to again (Riker is heartbroken about killing Yuta in "The Vengenace Factor", then is yucking it up the next week with no further mention. Spock has mind control one week then forgets about it next week. And so on and so forth). This, in my view, is the best way to write Star Trek, and the Kurtzman shows' downfall comes in part from a staunch refusal to do exactly this.
 
I think we're talking at slight cross-purposes - this is more or less what I'm arguing. SNW's use of the Gorn completely and irrevocably sucks, but it's a result of them trying (and, in my view, badly failing) to tie themselves into existing continuity - they're worshipping the idea of canon, rather than treating the franchise as a platform for storytelling.

Had they ignored pre-existing works and abandoned the idea of continuity, rather than desperately trying to refer back to it and integrate themselves with it, they would have made an entirely new hostile alien race without any regard as to whether it integrated well with TOS. That could have expanded the universe, perhaps given us fresher stories, and avoided the misuse of the Gorn (and the total impossibility of SNW's events meshing with "Arena") entirely.

That's what I mean by TOS and TNG not caring about continuity - things would happen in one episode and never be referred to again (Riker is heartbroken about killing Yuta in "The Vengenace Factor", then is yucking it up the next week with no further mention. Spock has mind control one week then forgets about it next week. And so on and so forth). This, in my view, is the best way to write Star Trek, and the Kurtzman shows' downfall comes in part from a staunch refusal to do exactly this.

Ah. I see what you're saying. Its the characters not acknowledging something traumatic that might have happened in a previous episode or something that might get a new viewer lost. Basically not dwelling on it. Episodic television does that a lot so new fans jumping in wont have to wonder why riker is depressed. It doesn't mean it didn't happen or isnt canon its just not mentioned. Of course if a future story needs something from a characters past they can always use it/refer to it to help further character growth in a later episodes since it did happen I actually like episodic television from the 60s to early 2000s. You could always jump right in a show and enjoy it at any point. TOS is great for that. Probably why I enjoy it so much.
 
I see very little truth from your naysaying.

As others have pointed out, Star Trek has been “dying” for 20 years. Yet a new show just premiered last week and seems to be doing okay. Let me know when it actually goes to hospice.

Also, if Star Trek “dies,” I will be just fine.
Yeah YOU'll be fine, and that's fine.
For a lot of other fans such as me however, I prefer my Trek to be kept alive.
Every single IP, be it movies, tv shows, music and games are being destroyed at the altar of nonsense becuse of horrible mismanagement.
 
(though I really like the existence of pseudo-magic and wish they'd bring some more of TOS' fantasy elements back, which might be a minority opinion).

I'm with you there. I love the more fantastic aspects of TOS -- Greek gods, Jack the Ripper, the White Rabbit, witches and giant cats, gangster planets, etc-- and wouldn't want Trek to ever take itself so seriously that there was no more room for the more outlandish stuff -- like Apollo's giant green hand.
 
Yeah YOU'll be fine, and that's fine.
For a lot of other fans such as me however, I prefer my Trek to be kept alive.
Every single IP, be it movies, tv shows, music and games are being destroyed at the altar of nonsense becuse of horrible mismanagement.

Again, Star Trek has been and continues to be a big part of my life since I was THREE. But I know that it’s an entertainment franchise. Also again, Star Trek has been “dying” for twenty years. It’s still going. As I told another poster, if you don’t like what is happening, vote with your wallet and tune out. But you won’t because why? FOMO? Supporting something that you don’t like sends the wrong message.
 
Of course youll be just fine. Im glad for you. But others here have supported and cared about Star Trek for their whole lives its a downer. To see what the Genes and others started go out this way and with shows that bear little resemblance to older Trek from 1966 to 2005 is very sad to watch.
Frankly, it's not so much of a downer as having to repeatedly see the constant naysaying over the last ten years.

If it's so sad to watch, change the channel.
 
Frankly, it's not so much of a downer as having to repeatedly see the constant naysaying over the last ten years.

If it's so sad to watch, change the channel.

Nope. I've supported the good trek and ill be here for the bad. Its good to have the knowledge for future discussions of trek when people are talking what is the best to worst trek. This unfortunately is the worst. But as a true trekkie ill slog through it.
 
Yeah YOU'll be fine, and that's fine.
For a lot of other fans such as me however, I prefer my Trek to be kept alive.
Every single IP, be it movies, tv shows, music and games are being destroyed at the altar of nonsense becuse of horrible mismanagement.
Absurd.

Life is full of seasons and insisting something persist while simultaneously insisting it's being destroyed is bass ackwards.

Frankly, it's not so much of a downer as having to repeatedly see the constant naysaying over the last ten years.

If it's so sad to watch, change the channel.
I'll go one step forward; stop engaging with the show period. It's not just complaints of the show is poor; that's reasonable. It's the claims of destruction, deletion of canon, and ruination of a franchise. If that was believed to be true then disengaging would be the most logical conclusion.
 
Again, Star Trek has been and continues to be a big part of my life since I was THREE. But I know that it’s an entertainment franchise. Also again, Star Trek has been “dying” for twenty years. It’s still going. As I told another poster, if you don’t like what is happening, vote with your wallet and tune out. But you won’t because why? FOMO? Supporting something that you don’t like sends the wrong message.
Star Trek hasn't been "dying" for 20 years, just like Apple or Microsoft hasn't been dying either.
But the new products are no longer exciting people, people are annoyed and certain lifelong fans are being apathetic towards it.
I'll support Trek however I like but I also realize majority support is waning.
Which could very easily be avoided but Paramount or Viacom or whatever refuses to listen to the actual fans.
Absurd.

Life is full of seasons and insisting something persist while simultaneously insisting it's being destroyed is bass ackwards.

I'll go one step forward; stop engaging with the show period. It's not just complaints of the show is poor; that's reasonable. It's the claims of destruction, deletion of canon, and ruination of a franchise. If that was believed to be true then disengaging would be the most logical conclusion.
So "Only Good Vibes" bullshit?
We can't call out the bad for being bad?
Is that explicitly a rule of this particular section of the website?
And if it is, please show me.
 
I have some hope that the new movie is going to bring some life back into Trek and bring a new vibe to it. Something that Legacy could have done but Kurtzman rejected out of jealousy over the popularity of Picard season 3.
 
Nope. I've supported the good trek and ill be here for the bad. Its good to have the knowledge for future discussions of trek when people are talking what is the best to worst trek. This unfortunately is the worst. But as a true trekkie ill slog through it.
Your justification is you wanna be able to dwell in the hatred of a show you don’t like?

That’s not the grandiose viewpoint you think it is.
 
I have some hope that the new movie is going to bring some life back into Trek and bring a new vibe to it. Something that Legacy could have done but Kurtzman rejected out of jealousy over the popularity of Picard season 3.

Yup. Kurtzman went away to work on something outside of trek when matalas started on season 3 as showrunner. He ended up making the most popular seasin of trek sonce kurtman trek started. I loved how he slipped in a tos Connie right under Kurtzmans nose. Lol. It leaves us an out to call all kuttzman trek an alternate timeline one day. Not likely but it its something to wish for. Lol
 
Yup. Kurtzman went away to work on something outside of trek when matalas started on season 3 as showrunner. He ended up making the most popular seasin of trek sonce kurtman trek started. I loved how he slipped in a tos Connie right under Kurtzmans nose. Lol. It leaves us an out to call all kuttzman trek an alternate timeline one day. Not likely but it its something to wish for. Lol
Tell me you don’t understand how television is produced without telling me you don’t understand how television is produced.
 
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