It can't happen here.
Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
- Start date
It can't happen here.
I get your point, but not a great example. The casting wasn't the problem in those movies.
"And your little dog too!"
Maybe not, but Affleck had several outings and never showed anything worth remembering. If he was born for the role there should have been something shining through somewhere. Instead he just got worse and worse the more I saw of him.
Clooney I'll grant you only had the one film and that one was already gone totally wrong from the development stage onwards. He did a fine job doing what they hired him to do, however bad an idea it was to have him doing it.
Guess I missed those movies where Ruffalo’s Hulk was the title character.
You're skipping over the implication of the entire Evans-returning-as-Cap matter.
Hailee Steinfeld on Her Marvel and ‘Spider-Verse’ Future, and How Fans Awkwardly Quote ‘Sinners’ in Public: ‘It Can Get Weird Fast’
Hailee Steinfeld reflects on her viral Sinners scene, Marvel’s Kate Bishop rumors and Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse.
variety.com
I guess I'm kind of in the other camp on this. For one thing art, even as silly as superhero movies, should help us deal with reality, so BECAUSE there are so many who would think Nazi characters were the good guys is exactly the reason why they need to be more present again AS THE BAD GUYS.
People need a reminder that Nazis are the bad guys, have always been the bad guys, and always will be the bad guys.
See that quote in my signature? Gustave Gilbert was a psychologist, and he came to this conclusion after analysing the accused at the Nuremberg trials. His definition of Evil came from studying Nazis and their motives. Because being Nazi means being evil, and if a Nazi does not want to be evil anymore, if they want to reclaim their humanity, that process, with whatever other steps are needed, also always entails stopping being a Nazi.
Too many people seem to have forgotten that, so we really need to drill it back into public consciousness. Nazis are always the bad guys, because Nazis are irrefutably evil.
So, yes, have a Nazi Captain America, because that would be a great bad guy. Because Evil, just as Nazis, can come around looking like people we previously held in high regard. The reason why Alexander Pierce was a great bad guy is because he looked like the late Robert Redford. We, the audience, think of Robert Redford as a good guy, but then Pierce went and had his housekeeper killed and schemed to kill our heroes and thousands of others while putting the whole world under his control. A person with a face we trust goes and does undeniably evil things.
So, yeah, I'm all for stories like that which teach us to be vigilant, and that Nazis are evil and need to be opposed.
I don't see a major implication. Maybe if Sam Wilson had become more popular in the movies then it would be the case or if he was the only non-white character in the movies but he is really just another character. IMO the goal is to not worry about real world politics or comic book canon or any of that stuff. It should be to gather your most popular characters and run with them. IMO the perfect Avengers cast would have been.
Sam Wilson as Captain America who more or less fills the role of Nick Fury
Your two most popular characters would likely have been Spider-Man and Black Panther now played by Micheal B. Jordan. They would carry the main thrust of the next Avengers movies.
Thor and Doctor Strange would be your two most powerful Avengers and also they also have lots of love with the fans and they have been around long enough that they connect to the golden days of the MCU.
Ant-Man Would be your comic relief character
Shang-Chi is popular enough and also someone we haven't seen but once so you got interest I think in lots of people wanting to see more of him
Kamala Khan and Yelena bring youth to the team and also sort of provide the Everyman role on the team. I guess Ant-Man also sort of does that as well and even Sam Wilson is a little more relatable than Nick Fury.
IMO they wouldn't have even needed to bring back Evans or Downey Jr to sort of save the MCU if they had done this.
Of course you also still have Hulk,She-Hulk,Vision,Kate Bishop,Hawkeye,Peter Quill, Nebula,Groot,Rocket Racoon,Blade,Daredevil,Punisher,Namor,Bucky Barnes,Shuri,Okoye, Red Guardian and Wong to also sort of bring in and out as well. Maybe even Wanda
Captain Marvel,The Eternals and almost all the other tv characters should be left to just tv or not used at all.
I agree, but there will always be some people who miss the point and root for the bad guys, like the "Thanos was right" contingent, say. It absolutely is important to say Nazis are bad, yes, but that's not likely to change the minds of anyone sympathetic to the Nazis; it's more to remind the rest of us to be vigilant.
Although in the current climate, I don't know if a Nazi Captain America is a good idea, unless the real Captain America (i.e. Sam) is there to oppose and defeat him, and emphatically remind us that fighting Nazis is what Captain America has been about since day one.
I haven't read them yet so I don't know the details, but the new Ultimate Panther comics have Killmonger as a good guy who works with Black Panther and the Wakandan heroes.
Oh, I forgot about that one, I was thinking of Dan Slott's run from the '00s.
Nazi Captain America would be such a cliche. I hope they don't use him. Bring him back as Capwolf. Steve Rogers comes back from the past and seems one of the reasons he stayed out of historical events was he was bitten by a Werewolf and became one himself. So he instead spent that time fighting creatures of the night and whatnot.
You mean like the Malthusians among us, who think that if enough people are murdered (...somehow) the survivors will get to live in a paradise world?
It's not so much about the ideologues, but the many people who appear to think they can tolerate Nazis, who may have Nazis (or Nazi sympathizers) in their family or circle of friends and need to be reminded that they can't just ignore that.
Again, ESPECIALLY in the current climate, and of course, he needs to be the clear villain that is ultimately defeated, and of course it makes thematically and dramatically the most sense to have Sam deliver the final blow. i thought that part was obvious.
I agree. When I was in High School we studied the holocaust in a lot of detail. In an age before the videos were publicly available, we saw the footage of hundred of emaciated dead bodies being shoved into mass graves by bulldozers. It was driven home why our democratic society was precious and why every citizen had to actively work at securing those rights.
I am not sure any of this Nazi stuff is going to be a feature of the next Avengers movie. From what it sounds like it is going to be Avengers vs X Men with Dr Doom manipulating the situation. If that is the case then it makes more sense to just have regular Steve Rogers back as Captain America and seems like the main conflict would be him facing off with Doom and Downey Jr. I feel like Sam as Captain America's role would be to sort of be one who sort of is first to find out about the threat and he is in the "round up a team" position. The first person he would likely turn to is Bucky and you know I think him,Buck and Steve Rogers from the past would be fun small team within the bigger Avengers team. I was thinking it would be something like this.
Steve,Sam, Bucky, US Agent and new Falcon.
Fantastic Four
Spiderman,Thor,Wong,Punisher,Shang-Chi
Ms Marvel,Yelena, Red Guardian,Kate Bishop and Sentry.
Steve,Sam, Bucky, US Agent and new Falcon.
Fantastic Four
Spiderman,Thor,Wong,Punisher,Shang-Chi
Ms Marvel,Yelena, Red Guardian,Kate Bishop and Sentry.
Cliche? Was it done before the "Hail Hydra" storyline about a decade ago?
We got tons of Nazi stories these days. The Boys,Peacemaker etc. Also your already turning Downey Jr into bad guy. You need someone who has some personal stakes in going up against what is in essence evil Tony Stark. The two people that most fit the bill would be Captain America(Steve) and or Spider-Man. Steve would basically be Superman to Stark as Lex Luthor. Steve is Batman to Tony's Joker etc.
Even with a big ensemble you still need a protagonist who the movie is mostly built around and something that makes it more than just a bunch of characters fighting each other. Actually you need three. Someone needs to be the most important X-Men character out of all the X-Men characters. I think it is going to be Namor. Stewart and McKellen are two old.
IMO the three most important characters are going to be Steve Rogers as Captain America, Dr Doom/Stark Variant and Namor. Captain America will be fighting to preserve the old MCU. Namor will be fighting for a world that has Mutants. Dr Doom is manipulating them to create a world were he is basically GOD or the ultimate ruler.
Before videos, there were films, and films of the horrors discovered upon the liberation of the concentration camps were always publicly available. It was standard policy to show those films in schools to make sure we'd be vigilant and not let it happen again. I don't know when that changed.