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SNW is the best (new) Trek since DS9

Wait, I was watching Star Trek then too. What was I supposed to be doing?! :rommie:
Hehe, no-one is “supposed” to do anything, of course. Can’t speak to everyone else’s experiences, but when Enterprise originally aired, that was around the time I moved out of my parents into my first own apartment in a new city, had my first long-term relationship, got my heart broken, broke someone else’s heart, started studying, met new people, so on and so forth. I never quite lost interest in Trek through all of that (heck, that was around the time I first learned about this place), but that was certainly a time period in my life where I spent the least amount of time caring about new Trek. Looking back, I think it was around the time I happened to be single again that I started to reevaluate Enterprise a few years after it had concluded.
 
Voyager, on the other hand, served up some of the blandest characters in Trek history. It was TNG lite, without the charm, depth, and somehow with even more technobabble. What's depressing is that it had such an amazing premise, that was quickly abandone. Even the sets felt like they were designed by committee.

Sorry, but I just have to defend Enterprise over Voyager whenever someone makes a comparison.

Voyager being better than Enterprise is a pretty common opinion. And I think ENT season 4 was definitely better than any Voyager season.
 
but I really think you’re short-changing Voyager, because I didn’t find its characters to be bland at all. At least not any blander than the ones on Enterprise
I've honestly tried to look at Voyager in a better light, and the show certainly has its moments, but in the end I always look back on it with disappointment over what it could have been with its premise…

A lone Starfleet ship stranded 70,000 light-years from home, with little hope of making it back.

But instead of letting that isolation create tension, desperation, or moral compromise, they kept things perfectly status quo. The ship never looked worn down, and the crew acted like they were still in the comfort of the Alpha Quadrant. Such a complete waste.

Enterprise actually embraced its premise... eventually. The crew felt inexperienced and vulnerable in deep space, and the show leaned into the sense that Starfleet was learning how to survive in hostile territory.

In regards to the characters, the word that comes to mind is static. Aside from her hairstyle, Janeway changes very little throughout the show. There’s very little, if any, character growth across seven whole seven seasons. The same can especially be said of Chakotay, Tuvok, Paris, and even the supposedly rebellious Torres.

By comparison, Archer shows significant growth, becoming far more pragmatic and hardened over the course of the series. T’Pol goes through a genuine emotional journey. Trip learns to deal with grief and trauma and comes out a better person for it.

Voyager essentially became TNG 2.0, perfectly clean and sanitized, even in terms of its characters. Interpersonal conflict was kept to an absolute minimum. It felt safe and predictable.

Enterprise was willing to let characters disagree, hold grudges, make mistakes, and carry those consequences forward into later episodes. It gave them texture and made them feel like actual people.

The Voyager characters often felt boiled down to a single trait:

Janeway was the determined leader.

Chakotay was the ever-loyal XO.

Tuvok was the logical Vulcan.

Paris was the roguish pilot.

Kim was the green rookie.


The Doctor and Seven were the few that managed to break free from this mold.

Enterprise gave its characters more complex identities:

Archer wasn’t just The Captain, he could be idealistic, petty, reckless, or compassionate depending on the situation.

T’Pol was logical, yes, but also conflicted about her place among humans.

Trip wasn’t just The Southern Engineer, he had ambition, humor, and deep emotional beats.

Phlox and Malcolm even managed to have some interesting character traits.


Sure, Hoshi and Mayweather were a little one dimensional, but had the series gone on, I’d like to think they would have had their moments.

Yes, I’m aware that many of these issues were the fault of UPN. Voyager’s episodic reset button was no doubt forced on them. But it was still incredibly frustrating that even when something dramatic happened, by the next episode it was like nothing had changed.
Voyager being better than Enterprise is a pretty common opinion.
Is it?

I kind of feel like a lot of people have given Enterprise a second chance since it ended and have come to appreciate it far more.
 
If anything ENT is getting a better fanbase reception in the Streaming Era than VOY is. The Prequel series has gotten numerous references and name drops in both the newer series and the Kelvin Timeline movies so I'd say aside from Seven and Janeway there's been more love showered on ENT in the 2020s than VOY.
 
I don't have the "Voyager-hatred" but I agree it was a bland TNG lite. Still loved it.

DS9 for me was at times the top of Trek awesomeness, but it had its share of crap filler episodes as well.

ENT only really started to be great in the 3rd season, and it had some of my favorite moments in that period.

I adore SNW but I think the jury is still out on it as a whole. For me it needs to deliver a higher per-episode quality than it does at the moment (right before s03e06).

It does have a chance at being the best since DS9, but all arcs need to have satisfying payoffs before the end for me to make that determination, and I also need still more actual episodic strange new worlds, because, you know, *SNW* and all.
 
Yeah I think the first two seasons of Enterprise are enjoyable, if not fantastic, viewing. The third season is superb. The fourth completely lost me, it sort of feels like a forerunner of Picard S3 (albeit slightly less shameless about it).

I like how the premise is woven in subtly in the first two seasons, like it plays like regular Star Trek except sometimes you're reminded that the ship is completely shit, or a Vulcan shows up and shakes their head disapprovingly, or Archer bricks it in a way a Starfleet captain never would. The only critical misstep is the Temporal Cold War, which I always thought was crazy dull.
 
Everybody says this, but I disagree. Seasons 1 and 2 were pretty good with combining serialized and episodic TV, all the while teasing old fans with retcons that didn't actually break canon.
I mean I don't hate the first two seasons, I love them, but I can't rate them higher than "average-to-good" if I'm being honest to myself.

I don't even enjoy having an opinion on this that seems to coincide with the "mainstream" opinion, but here we are 🤣
 
Hehe, no-one is “supposed” to do anything, of course. Can’t speak to everyone else’s experiences, but when Enterprise originally aired, that was around the time I moved out of my parents into my first own apartment in a new city, had my first long-term relationship, got my heart broken, broke someone else’s heart, started studying, met new people, so on and so forth. I never quite lost interest in Trek through all of that (heck, that was around the time I first learned about this place), but that was certainly a time period in my life where I spent the least amount of time caring about new Trek. Looking back, I think it was around the time I happened to be single again that I started to reevaluate Enterprise a few years after it had concluded.
Yeah, I was just commenting as a joke about my interests never really changing! I got married and bought my own house of course, but I never really had the wanderlust period that many of my acquaintances had. I guess I'm just boring. (and fine with it!) ; -)
 
It would be a hard choice between SNW and DS9, but if I had to choose, it would be DS9. I love the comedy stuff in both shows, but balanced out, DS9 did more serious stuff along the way, and ofcourse it was the first Star Trek doing an arc over a few seasons, while still remaining episodic.
Mostly, with DS9, I am more invested in the characters, but that's not really fair because when you look at it, we've only had a old school seasons of episodes for SNW, just hit 24. So we have not been able to go as deep as DS9 and other Trek had a chance of doing.
Not saying there isn't character work and development in SNW, but it seems DS9 did more with them.

What is mostly important for me, is that SNW is fun, exciting, engaging. I am always looking forward to the next episode.
Me too. Its certainly my favorite of the new streaming shows.

I will always put DS9 ahead of SNW because with the former I got far more episodes to enjoy as compared to the latter. With DS9 you got a LOT of great episodes and very little filler. Even the filler had something interesting going on. I've never seen a show that was able to give quality time to so many characters. They could have kept that show going longer and I wouldn't have gotten bored. IMO that is sci fi at its best.

My only regret is I was too busy with real life when the show first aired and didn't get to enjoy it until the DVD sets came out. I thought "I loved TNG so maybe I'll like this." Boy was I in for a surprise.
 
"Carbon Creek," "Minefield" and "Dead Stop" are as good as almost anything VOY was producing in its run and a fair amount of DS9's output.
I also liked The Catwalk for the fact they were coming up with a jurry-rigged way to survive a real space danger

(Although one wonders why they couldn't have gone down to the Class M planet to ride it out as I don't think it was said to be taking out everything in the star system.)
 
Is it?

I kind of feel like a lot of people have given Enterprise a second chance since it ended and have come to appreciate it far more.

It's still a pretty safe bet. Even if it's true people are starting to warm up to Enterprise more, the same can be said of Voyager.

If anything ENT is getting a better fanbase reception in the Streaming Era than VOY is. The Prequel series has gotten numerous references and name drops in both the newer series and the Kelvin Timeline movies so I'd say aside from Seven and Janeway there's been more love showered on ENT in the 2020s than VOY.

You mean on the shows? I mean that's a pretty significant Aside. And even then, I'd say Voyager has definitely been referenced more than Enterprise. Like someone said, it was front on center on Prodigy, and of course we had a character on Picard. Still, I am glad to see Enterprise getting more references too, especially with a certain cameo and also the namedrops on SNW. If you meant fan reception, than I just say what I posted above.
 
i like SNW a lot but it suffers from too - short seasons. The goofy episodes would work better if they were amongst 26 episodes, not just 10 .

Still SNW probably makes my personal top five. My top 5 changes a lot, but currently i'd say DS9, ENT, Lower Decks, Pro, and SNW would be my top five
 
It's still a pretty safe bet. Even if it's true people are starting to warm up to Enterprise more, the same can be said of Voyager.
Is this true? It's exciting if so, both shows definitely deserve a positive reappraisal.

I've definitely noticed a lot more Voyager fans over the last few years, and my niece took to it as her favourite of all the shows. For Enterprise though I still mostly just see people unfairly castigating it, though people at least admit that T'Pol absolutely rocks.
 
Robert Duncan McNeill and Garrett Wang even complained about the reset nearly every week on Voyager. I'm sure they're loving DS9. I need to start listening to the DS9 version of Delta Flyers.
 
Voyager is the only Trek series I couldn't finish. Came back for the final episode and was pretty disappointed by more time travel and technobabble, and ending the series with them arriving instead of showing what happened after they got back.
 
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