Spock and Chapel Handhold Thread (S3 x 02)

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

True. I supposed I'm wondering if we'll see the feelings remain / rebuild over the season and series. Right now, Chapel seems to not have any feelings remaining for Spock which feels like whiplash to me. I do hope they show the feelings as they can still have a powerful relationship without being together. Jim and Pam lit up T.V screens of years on the Office without being together

Multiple sequential posts are considered spamming on this board. Read the rules and learn how to multi-qoite. PS, I love puppies too.

 

[Captain Jollydark]

I have to be honest. I don't see how she was cold or cruel. She seemed genuinely uncomfortable and regretful, and she made it pretty clear before leaving that the time they were taking was for their own, independent healing, and not for the healing of the relationship. That said, I still think that Spock and Chapel will end up together. Narratively, it seems pretty unsatisfying if they don't. I imagine a flash forward far beyond the time of this series in which Spock and Chapel reunite in some fashion. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but I think it would make a nice bookend from which to view what all of this meant, including things like Pike's Legacy and so on.

Didn't she say something about no romantic gestures in the previous episode? She and Korby appeared NOT to want to rub it in his face but he insisted. Also in the still photos from WBB there's one of her sitting at the bar with Spock so likely there was a scene cut where she reached out.

 

[The Wormhole]

The whiplash between wanting and not wanting a relationship. Throughout S1 and most of S2 it's clear that Chapel has issues with commitment (likely due to her PTSD) and this is leading her to put a wedge between her and Spock. It's also the reason that she's NEVER pursued a relationship. Three months later it's like it never happened and she's eager for a committed relationship. Sure, people change and she might have met someone who changed her mind but this is an enormous change in only three months and it's not discussed or acknowledged.

Love strikes when one is least expecting or not wanting it. Chapel might have said she wasn't pursuing a relationship, she may have even meant it. The she met Korby and her feelings shifted. This sort of thing happens, it's one of life's mysteries regarding matters of the heart.

I really liked the Spock / Chapel romance and friendship. Who would want to see everything including their friendship fall apart?

That's the story they want to tell, Spock and Chapel are the failed romance in which the two of them rather awkwardly try to move on despite both still caring for each other very deeply.

 

[indranee]

IMO Chapock feels like it has better word flow.


I never did. SNW cuts super close to the bone with established TOS 'history' but they do seem to try and stay within the specific statements (while ignoring the obvious intent) ...I always assumed this relationship would end in a way that leaves the TOS relationship intact.

Spock has opened himself up, got heart-smashed for it, will possibly decide not to let that happen again.


"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting."

THIS. It was never meant to happen, right? But not only that, the fact that they made Korby so likeable and open tells me that Chapel rebounded heavily into his arms once she found out that she was never going to be "it" in Spock's future. Then, once Korby was gone, she was back to "mooning over" (I hate that term and but it is what it is) Spock.

Much thanks for bringing in the "wanting vs having" phrase. I kept thinking about it last night after watching WB.

The fact is that Spock is hurt. Very hurt. And the only way for a Human/Vulcan hybrid to deal with that kind of pain is to close oneself off. This stays firmly in canon. I am sure if the writers are inclined that way we will see quite a lot of UST (Unspoken Sexual Tension -- I am not using the accepted term "unresolved" here bc frankly THAT'S been done and done) in the ensuing episodes, but the physical relationship itself is over, and the sooner the "Spapel" folks realize and accept that, the better. Otherwise, it's dangerous non-canon material.

 

[indranee]

But isn't it established that Chapel is deeply in love with Spock during TOS? She's in love with Spock while searching for Korby. They need to get her feelings back there at the very least.

TOS -- while episodic -- was not aired in a serialized fashion, so we don't know exactly when and if Christine "gave up" on Korby and "went back to mooning over Spock" other than the fact that at the end of WALGMO she was no longer expecting Korby to be her husband.

 

[indranee]

Yes I am but I'm mostly disappointed by just how cold and cruel she was. There was no need for that and I don't think it aligns well with S1 and 2 where she was a good friend and genuinely good person. I wouldn't put a former partner in that position when it was so easily avoidable. I very surprised that they've made a choice to have Chapel do this.

I really liked the Spock / Chapel romance and friendship. Who would want to see everything including their friendship fall apart?

So sorry for the spam but that is EXACTLY where this was going to go. Did you not see TOS? Why do you think this happened? Christine was always there for Spock in TOS. She was RIGHT THERE. But he did not go there with her ever again. Something had to have happened BEFORE we see them in TOS for Spock to behave that way IN TOS. So THIS happened. Once bitten, twice shy is the adage you're looking at. I'm quite happy with this because I was afraid they were going to mess with canon on this show as soon as I saw the Spock/Chapel thing happening.

Also, I don't see Chapel as cold toward Spock in Wedding Blues. I feel that she's moving on but her feelings are still there and she feels very guilty. Her face when she was asked to tell the "romantic story" when Spock was standing there and also when he turned and left did not tell me that she was cold. She's still in love with him, but she's pushing him away bc she now knows she's not what "his future" needs.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Chock. Yeah, that's what I'm going with.

 

[Dar70]

That's ok. I can still enjoy stories with known outcomes.

And Trek is definitely mixed in romance so less is more.

I still would have liked a complete unknown relationship play out during the show. I think the last Romance we saw in Trek Play out over multiple seasons was Blanna Torres and Tom Paris. Besides Michael Burnham and Book..

 

[Nerys Myk]

Pike and Batel?

 

[fireproof78]

I still would have liked a complete unknown relationship play out during the show. I think the last Romance we saw in Trek Play out over multiple seasons was Blanna Torres and Tom Paris. Besides Michael Burnham and Book..

Maybe you'll get it in the Academy series.

 

[Ovation]

Maybe you'll get it in the Academy series.

Is it secretly a sitcom with Holly Hunter dealing with Paul Giamatti’s shenanigans?

 

[Noname Given]

I still would have liked a complete unknown relationship play out during the show. I think the last Romance we saw in Trek Play out over multiple seasons was Blanna Torres and Tom Paris. Besides Michael Burnham and Book..

Ypou have it in Pike and Batel - and the closeness of their relationship is absolutely made apparant in SNW S3 Hegemony II. (But if you haven't actually been watching the show, you wouldn't know that.)

 

[ILovePuppies]

It was never meant to happen, right?

It clearly hasn't worked out by TOS (and isn't really touched on in the movies) but perhaps there is a future beyond TOS.

Then, once Korby was gone, she was back to "mooning over"

The order in which the episodes aired established that she held those feelings while still searching for Korby. As it aired this way, I assume that this is what the writers are working with so I don't think she leapt between men so much as consistently held onto feelings for Spock.

The fact is that Spock is hurt. Very hurt. And the only way for a Human/Vulcan hybrid to deal with that kind of pain is to close oneself off.

I think that the hurt would have made more sense if they'd had a successful, established relationship first. That made it quite unsatisfying to begin with as Christine clearly wasn't prepared to even call her time with Spock a relationship. The intensity of the hurt would have made more sense if they'd spent half of season 2 and the first half of season 3 as an in love couple.

I appreciate that they wanted a reason for Spock to become so closed off but that level of distance was partly due to Spock being TV alien in the 1960s and a bit one dimensional. This Spock is more emotional and dynamic as this is a modern take on on the same character. We can't really explain Chapel's personality transplant as her being younger, she's clearly a modern take. I don't find it entirely believable that this Spock will close himself off to such a close friend let alone other friends such as Uhura. I also can't believe that Christine wouldn't work very hard to maintain or rebuild that close friendship. Spock wants and needs close relationships even if they aren't romantic as it's clearly important to him. Would he really be all or nothing with Chapel? This Spock doesn't seem SO hurt that he would cut off any contact and friendship with her.

Your post makes me wonder about the autobiography that Boimler mentioned. I'm curious how the writer's will make sense of Christine not being mentioned. She's clearly very important to him. Will they go down the road that she broke his heart so thoroughly that he never wanted to mention her?

Her face when she was asked to tell the "romantic story" when Spock was standing there and also when he turned and left did not tell me that she was cold. She's still in love with him, but she's pushing him away bc she now knows she's not what "his future" needs.

I wish that they had included a scene of her saying this to Uhura and La'an. It would help connect the two seasons. The vibe from the episode is that Korby is the best choice for her and she's over the moon. It would soften the situation is this was least partially about what's best for Spock. It would equalise the pain and hurt a bit. I hope that they include some sort of scenes like this in future episodes this season. The 'still in love' part needs to be clear to line up with TOS.

Still, I'm happy to hear that not everyone felt that she was cold. Perhaps I've had a very harsh interpretation. I would hate to be Spock in this situation and not given advance notice so that I could make a choice about making myself scarce. He's had no warning and I think she owed him more than that.

Pike and Batel

Sadly, I think we know the ending on this one as well.

I can reassure everyone that yes, I have most definitely watched TOS . That's why Christine's total lack of feelings doesn't line up for me as she is clearly in love with him (still? again?) by TOS.

 

[fireproof78]

My only conclusion reading this thread is that few people have wrestled with conflicting romantic feelings while moving in to a new relationship and fewer still have gone full defensive more with their emotions due to unrequited love.

I understand both Spock and Chapel. Their trajectory makes sense to me.

 

[Noname Given]

I can reassure everyone that yes, I have most definitely watched TOS . That's why Christine's total lack of feelings doesn't line up for me as she is clearly in love with him (still? again?) by TOS.

Don't have a problem with it or feel it's out of chafracter for her. Yes, in the end she found he was the one she loved; however the experience btween them we see in SNW affected Spock tpom the point where he ABANDONED embracing his Human side, which is what he has been doing on SNW, and he was hurt so profioundly, Spock will never acknowledge any further feelings for Christine Chapel (beyond what we saw in TOS S2 Amok Time when Spock was under the psychological effects of Pon Farr) because he was emotionally destroyed so badly be her breaking up with him in 2260.

Again, don't have a problem with because some people never fully recover emontionally from a bad breakup if they really cared for the other person, but that love was untimately not reciprocated. No, not everyone experiences that level of hurt from a breakup; but it happens.

 

[ILovePuppies]

My only conclusion reading this thread is that few people have wrestled with conflicting romantic feelings while moving in to a new relationship and fewer still have gone full defensive more with their emotions due to unrequited love.

I do understand your point. I think that our differences might be arising because you see greater conflict in Christine than I do. I think that they could have provided greater conflict by having her struggle with choosing between these men or wrestling with her feelings for Spock. They've very actively gone in the other direction and established that she is happy and certain of her choice. I would feel differently if they established her conflict and referenced her discussion with Boimler. By all means, have her heartbroken by discovering that Spock doesn't care for her in the future, decide to move on at all costs and throw herself into another relationship with desperation because she wants and needs to move on. But add in clear moments of caring for Spock, longing looks and some pain of her part. She is not displaying pain or conflict at moving on. Showing some sensitivity at not beaming aboard without warning or dancing / reuniting with Korby after the deception was discovered was called for.

I understand both Spock and Chapel. Their trajectory makes sense to me.

How do you think that Chapel will progress? Will she be put in moments that consistently remind of her her feelings? I'd be most disappointed if we don't see feelings or close friendship again until TOS. The death of her finance cannot be the catalyst for her feelings.

Sadly, they've created the feeling that Chapel got what she deserved in TOS and I don't think that's progress.

Don't have a problem with it or feel it's out of chafracter for her. Yes, in the end she found he was the one she loved; however the experience btween them we see in SNW affected Spock tpom the point where he ABANDONED embracing his Human side, which is what he has been doing on SNW, and he was hurt so profioundly, Spock will never acknowledge any further feelings for Christine Chapel (beyond what we saw in TOS S2 Amok Time when Spock was under the psychological effects of Pon Farr) because he was emotionally destroyed so badly be her breaking up with him in 2260.

Again, don't have a problem with because some people never fully recover emontionally from a bad breakup if they really cared for the other person, but that love was untimately not reciprocated. No, not everyone experiences that level of hurt from a breakup; but it happens.

He also cried when Chapel told him of her feelings in TOS. They obviously don't have him refer to Christine as the reason for his emotion but given the background in SNW I would think that this a likely inference.

It's quite an extreme reaction to being together for around 1 day. I can't understand why they didn't build a happier and slightly longer relationship in S2. I agree though that he deeply affected. I wonder what to make of his biography and her lack of mention given this. I assume heart break rather than not enough feeling.

Would you feel differently if they introduce a new relationship between Spock and La'an right off the bat? I hope that they don't but I suspect that they will. It changes the context of the this deep heartbreak if he moves on quickly.

I'm surprised that there isn't a big Chapel / Spock community here (unless there is?). I'm not sure if anyone was around in the Trip / T'pol days but the discussion was enormous and the community was huge. It was very supportive. I think that Spock and Chapel have a lot of similarities as a couple.

 

[fireproof78]

How do you think that Chapel will progress? Will she be put in moments that consistently remind of her her feelings? I'd be most disappointed if we don't see feelings or close friendship again until TOS. The death of her finance cannot be the catalyst for her feelings.

She will be at war within herself, despite apparent satisfaction.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I see no issue.

Their romance started on shaky ground anyways, with Spock being engaged to T’Pring and Chapel’s presence undermining that relationship. The presence of T’Pring alone was always going to make commitment difficult, unless Spock left T’Pring for Chapel. At best, Spock and T’Pring are on a break. Of course Chapel would chose someone else, instead dealing with the drama. It’s a lot less messy. Spock is actually a bigger jerk for stringing Chapel along while never leaving T’Pring behind if he only wanted to chose one to be with.

However, if Spock wants Chapel that badly, why not fight Korby for her? Or is that considered backwards thinking in their century?

Now, there is also the fact that Spock does not realize that he’s unhappy being in a relationship with Chapel, because he has not met Leila Kalomi yet. Spock even says as much in TOS after he meets Leila again. The question is, is Leila the reason Chapel realizes she still loves Spock?

Majel Barrett's Chapel seems to have gotten what she deserved. Chapel's so cold that it seems understandable that Spock didn't want to engage with her in TOS. A key point of SNW is reducing the misogyny and (let's be honest, pathetic nature) surrounding nurse Chapel. This seemed to happen in S2 when it was clear that Spock and Chapel had a mutual relationship and she was still entrenched in these feelings. This has disappeared as it now seems again that Chapel is quite sad. She pushed him away in a horrible way but can't get over him. We're right back where we started.

Majel Barrett’s Chapel also looks like Number One aka Una. In fact, that’s who Spock sees when he looks at her. It can be inferred that Spock is not attracted to Number One at all, and at some point he mentally blocks out Chapel from memory with Una as a stand in.

 

[fireproof78]

However, if Spock wants Chapel that badly, why not fight Korby for her? Or is that considered backwards thinking in their century?

It's considered backwards thinking in our century.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Spapel

It's considered backwards thinking in our century.

Vulcans are cool with it.
Ka if fee!!!!