Spock and Chapel Handhold Thread (S3 x 02)

[ILovePuppies]

I was very disappointed in S3E2 so I was thinking that other Spapel fanes might be similarly disappointed. I'm confused by a few things.

1. Chapel's turned from a great, supportive friend for Spock into someone cruel. It was brutal to beam abord with Korby and announce that they would share a room and then giddily discuss how wonderful the relationship was AROUND Spock. There was no need for her to be so cruel. All she had to do was tell Uhura or La'an that she was bringing a new partner in advance. Spock could have been warned and had time to process his emotions privately. A decent friend would have done, let alone such as close partner.
2. Making the breakup about how wonderful Korby was rather than Boimler's warning. I fully appreciate that the characters might need to break up for continuity but they heavily implied in S2 that Christine was devastated when she realised that she wouldn't be important to Spock and she then began to push him away. If Christine had acknowledged to Uhuru or La'an that this was the reason that she was pushing herself to move on then we all would have been sympathetic or her attempt to save herself from pain. Given this was the heavily implied explanation in S2, why would they abandon this in S3? Her conversations in Wedding Bell Blues only focus on how amazing Korby is as a partner.
3. The whiplash between wanting and not wanting a relationship. Throughout S1 and most of S2 it's clear that Chapel has issues with commitment (likely due to her PTSD) and this is leading her to put a wedge between her and Spock. It's also the reason that she's NEVER pursued a relationship. Three months later it's like it never happened and she's eager for a committed relationship. Sure, people change and she might have met someone who changed her mind but this is an enormous change in only three months and it's not discussed or acknowledged.
4. The lack of solid relationship in the first place. I presume that this breakup is meant to inspire Spock towards a path of logic. Except they were never really together and had about 1 day of happiness. For this to be a solid foundation for a big character development arc, they needed to build a strong foundation over quite a few episodes.
5. Majel Barrett's Chapel seems to have gotten what she deserved. Chapel's so cold that it seems understandable that Spock didn't want to engage with her in TOS. A key point of SNW is reducing the misogyny and (let's be honest, pathetic nature) surrounding nurse Chapel. This seemed to happen in S2 when it was clear that Spock and Chapel had a mutual relationship and she was still entrenched in these feelings. This has disappeared as it now seems again that Chapel is quite sad. She pushed him away in a horrible way but can't get over him. We're right back where we started.

I don't understand the point of the relationship now. They were never really together and now it seems to be over. Spock is hurt and Chapel is frankly coming off as a bit of an awful person. We know that her relationship with Korby won't work out and Spock will never had a good relationship with T'Pring.

Is anyone seeing it differently? Do you still have hope that a relationship or love could work out? Chapel still needs to get back to being in love with Spock by TOS so we can't be done with their closeness right?

 

[Mudd]

It seems like a believable and complicated relationship to me.

"Spapel" is a nonstarter as a label. Ugh!

 

[Tosk]

Spapel

IMO Chapock feels like it has better word flow.

Do you still have hope that a relationship or love could work out?

I never did. SNW cuts super close to the bone with established TOS 'history' but they do seem to try and stay within the specific statements (while ignoring the obvious intent) ...I always assumed this relationship would end in a way that leaves the TOS relationship intact.

Spock has opened himself up, got heart-smashed for it, will possibly decide not to let that happen again.

The whiplash between wanting and not wanting a relationship.

"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting."

 

[fireproof78]

After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting."

Agreed, Spock.

 

[ILovePuppies]

I never did. SNW cuts super close to the bone with established TOS 'history' but they do seem to try and stay within the specific statements (while ignoring the obvious intent) ...I always assumed this relationship would end in a way that leaves the TOS relationship intact.

But isn't it established that Chapel is deeply in love with Spock during TOS? She's in love with Spock while searching for Korby. They need to get her feelings back there at the very least.

 

[Mudd]

She is in love with Spock.

 

[fireproof78]

But isn't it established that Chapel is deeply in love with Spock during TOS? She's in love with Spock while searching for Korby. They need to get her feelings back there at the very least.

She is in love with Spock.

 

[Turtletrekker]

But isn't it established that Chapel is deeply in love with Spock during TOS? She's in love with Spock while searching for Korby. They need to get her feelings back there at the very least.

Easy. As I just said in the Wedding Bell Blues thread...

As much as I actually did like the character, I'll be happy if we never see Korby again and make his disappearance the next time he's even brought up.

To twist the knife, Christine should come to realize that she still loves Spock only for Spock to recommit to T'Pring after his time with Leila Kalomi before she has a chance to say anything, which results in her laser focus quest to find Korby. This sets up The Naked Time, What Are Little Girls Made Of? and The Paradise Syndrome perfectly.

And also remember that when Christine professed her love to Spock in The Naked Time that she was under the influence of the same virus that made Tasha Yar jump an android.

 

[Dar70]

I was very disappointed in S3E2 so I was thinking that other Spapel fanes might be similarly disappointed. I'm confused by a few things.

1. Chapel's turned from a great, supportive friend for Spock into someone cruel. It was brutal to beam abord with Korby and announce that they would share a room and then giddily discuss how wonderful the relationship was AROUND Spock. There was no need for her to be so cruel. All she had to do was tell Uhura or La'an that she was bringing a new partner in advance. Spock could have been warned and had time to process his emotions privately. A decent friend would have done, let alone such as close partner.
2. Making the breakup about how wonderful Korby was rather than Boimler's warning. I fully appreciate that the characters might need to break up for continuity but they heavily implied in S2 that Christine was devastated when she realised that she wouldn't be important to Spock and she then began to push him away. If Christine had acknowledged to Uhuru or La'an that this was the reason that she was pushing herself to move on then we all would have been sympathetic or her attempt to save herself from pain. Given this was the heavily implied explanation in S2, why would they abandon this in S3? Her conversations in Wedding Bell Blues only focus on how amazing Korby is as a partner.
3. The whiplash between wanting and not wanting a relationship. Throughout S1 and most of S2 it's clear that Chapel has issues with commitment (likely due to her PTSD) and this is leading her to put a wedge between her and Spock. It's also the reason that she's NEVER pursued a relationship. Three months later it's like it never happened and she's eager for a committed relationship. Sure, people change and she might have met someone who changed her mind but this is an enormous change in only three months and it's not discussed or acknowledged.
4. The lack of solid relationship in the first place. I presume that this breakup is meant to inspire Spock towards a path of logic. Except they were never really together and had about 1 day of happiness. For this to be a solid foundation for a big character development arc, they needed to build a strong foundation over quite a few episodes.
5. Majel Barrett's Chapel seems to have gotten what she deserved. Chapel's so cold that it seems understandable that Spock didn't want to engage with her in TOS. A key point of SNW is reducing the misogyny and (let's be honest, pathetic nature) surrounding nurse Chapel. This seemed to happen in S2 when it was clear that Spock and Chapel had a mutual relationship and she was still entrenched in these feelings. This has disappeared as it now seems again that Chapel is quite sad. She pushed him away in a horrible way but can't get over him. We're right back where we started.

I don't understand the point of the relationship now. They were never really together and now it seems to be over. Spock is hurt and Chapel is frankly coming off as a bit of an awful person. We know that her relationship with Korby won't work out and Spock will never had a good relationship with T'Pring.

Is anyone seeing it differently? Do you still have hope that a relationship or love could work out? Chapel still needs to get back to being in love with Spock by TOS so we can't be done with their closeness right?

You are disappointed because they started something doomed from the beginning. Of course they had to write her cold towards Spock. There is not really anywhere they can go with it. I would have liked to see unknown characters have a romance on this show.

 

[fireproof78]

You are disappointed because they started something doomed from the beginning. Of course they had to write her cold towards Spock. There is not really anywhere they can go with it. I would have liked to see unknown characters have a romance on this show.

Not all relationships have a happy ending.

 

[Tosk]

But isn't it established that Chapel is deeply in love with Spock during TOS? She's in love with Spock while searching for Korby. They need to get her feelings back there at the very least.

I'm not sure how that relates to "Do you still have hope that a relationship or love could work out?"

Getting Chapel "back in love" with Spock in time for TOS is not the same as a relationship working out.

 

[Dar70]

Not all relationships have a happy ending.

Correct..but the outcome on this one was already known..

 

[fireproof78]

Correct..but the outcome on this one was already known..

That's ok. I can still enjoy stories with known outcomes.

And Trek is definitely mixed in romance so less is more.

 

[ILovePuppies]

Getting Chapel "back in love" with Spock in time for TOS is not the same as a relationship working out.

I agree with you. I meant will we see Chapel still having feelings of love towards Spock as the season and series progresses? Wedding Bell Blues gives of the vibe that Chapel's feelings are completely over for Spock give just how cold she was. That doesn't line up with TOS. They could choose to address this by showing us that she is still in love with Spock is subtle ways and I curious if they will. Alternativley they could actually get the characters back together some time between now and the end of the series. That doesn't seem likely as she must get engaged to Korby but perhaps is possible

 

[fireproof78]

Acting cold doesn't mean feelings are gone.

 

[ILovePuppies]

You are disappointed because they started something doomed from the beginning. Of course they had to write her cold towards Spock. There is not really anywhere they can go with it. I would have liked to see unknown characters have a romance on this show.

Yes I am but I'm mostly disappointed by just how cold and cruel she was. There was no need for that and I don't think it aligns well with S1 and 2 where she was a good friend and genuinely good person. I wouldn't put a former partner in that position when it was so easily avoidable. I very surprised that they've made a choice to have Chapel do this.

I really liked the Spock / Chapel romance and friendship. Who would want to see everything including their friendship fall apart?

 

[ILovePuppies]

That's ok. I can still enjoy stories with known outcomes.

And Trek is definitely mixed in romance so less is more.

If the producers do get it to happen then perhaps we'll see TOS seasons 4 and 5 done with the Strange New Worlds crew. They would have a lot of freedom with Spock and Chapel and any other romance as we know very little about how things worked out from there. Admittedly Spock attempted the kohlinar but didn't complete it so a relationship could have run before and after that.

 

[Midquest]

I have to be honest. I don't see how she was cold or cruel. She seemed genuinely uncomfortable and regretful, and she made it pretty clear before leaving that the time they were taking was for their own, independent healing, and not for the healing of the relationship. That said, I still think that Spock and Chapel will end up together. Narratively, it seems pretty unsatisfying if they don't. I imagine a flash forward far beyond the time of this series in which Spock and Chapel reunite in some fashion. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but I think it would make a nice bookend from which to view what all of this meant, including things like Pike's Legacy and so on.

 

[ILovePuppies]

Acting cold doesn't mean feelings are gone

True. I supposed I'm wondering if we'll see the feelings remain / rebuild over the season and series. Right now, Chapel seems to not have any feelings remaining for Spock which feels like whiplash to me. I do hope they show the feelings as they can still have a powerful relationship without being together. Jim and Pam lit up T.V screens of years on the Office without being together

 

[ILovePuppies]

I have to be honest. I don't see how she was cold or cruel. She seemed genuinely uncomfortable and regretful, and she made it pretty clear before leaving that the time they were taking was for their own, independent healing, and not for the healing of the relationship.

Very fair. Thanks for sharing an alternate perspective. For me it was about not warning Spock that she was returning with Korby (through Uhura and La'An if needed) and having a lovey dovey conversation and how great the relationship was around Spock. Some discretion was needed here and thoughtfulness about how this could hurt Spock. A gentler conversation with him about the value of their friendship would have a gone a long way.

That said, I still think that Spock and Chapel will end up together. Narratively, it seems pretty unsatisfying if they don't. I imagine a flash forward far beyond the time of this series in which Spock and Chapel reunite in some fashion. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but I think it would make a nice bookend from which to view what all of this meant, including things like Pike's Legacy and so on.

I would love this. The movies make this difficult but not impossible. It would be very satisfying from a viewer's perspective. Is the producers get to do season 4 and 5 of TOS then they would have ample opportunity to do this without breaking canon.