I know. But they haven't evolved much.
What do you think about people "Shipping" Kirk and Spock?
- Thread starter ILoveVoyager
- Start date
From The Motion Picture Novelization:
“I was never aware of this lovers rumor, although I have been told that Spock encountered it several
times. Apparently he had always dismissed it with his characteristic lifting of his right eyebrow which
usually connoted some combination of surprise, disbelief, and/or annoyance. As for myself, although I
have no moral or other objections to physical love in any of its many Earthly, alien, and mixed forms, I
have always found my best gratification in that creature woman . Also, I would dislike being thought of as
so foolish that I would select a love partner who came into sexual heat only once every seven years.” -- Adm. Kirk
“I was never aware of this lovers rumor, although I have been told that Spock encountered it several
times. Apparently he had always dismissed it with his characteristic lifting of his right eyebrow which
usually connoted some combination of surprise, disbelief, and/or annoyance. As for myself, although I
have no moral or other objections to physical love in any of its many Earthly, alien, and mixed forms, I
have always found my best gratification in that creature woman . Also, I would dislike being thought of as
so foolish that I would select a love partner who came into sexual heat only once every seven years.” -- Adm. Kirk
Unless it's bloody obvious, like that was then.
Obviously it isn’t as obvious as you want it to be or else folks wouldn’t have differing interpretations.
Oh, please, it's a joke about whose going to wear the pants in the family after they're married (to use a contemporary colloquialism from the same era as the joke was written.)
Really, fans will squabble over anything here.
I grew up with the show and first saw it just a few years after the episode was made. It's not a "bloody obvious" joke. It can absolutely be taken more than one way. My sister and I discussed it when we were younger and she still shakes her head at it because of how she interprets the line.
You being insistent doesn't make you right, it just shows me how you took the line. Considering how Star Trek treated women in Starfleet, it's reasonable that Angela wouldn't be reporting to her own husband. Just like Lt. Palamas would leave the service once she "found the right man" (you shoulda seen the head shaking over that one in my house - lol).
And it's just as reasonable that it's a joke.
That's why this is a discussion board.
It is indeed - a bloody obvious joke.
SureIt is indeed - a bloody obvious joke.
The idea that Kirk and Spock were gay wasn't a thing for TV shows back in 1966-69 and it's only people who want to deride the series in these enlightened times that see that. They were just people who liked each other and trusted one another and that's it. Plus to have a lovely affair between such characters would affect the way you view the episodes even to this day I'm sure.
JB
JB
They are good friends, but not even the kind of friends that stay together/do everything together. Many times they went their separate ways, and had to reconnect, like TMP, TWOK and TUC, not to mention when Kirk was with Antonia, and whatever Kirk was doing during Generations. (I do think it was a waste to not include Nimoy in that movie, though, as Spock was already in the 24th century. I hated most things about that movie.)
I liked Generations myself but Shatner probably wanted the limelight on that one. But I think I remember that Nimoy turned down a part in the film because it was too insignificant for Spock.
JB
JB
I voted 'other'.
I don't think anything about it. If others take pleasure from shipping them, then power to them.
I don't think anything about it. If others take pleasure from shipping them, then power to them.
People can and should embrace whatever fan theories they like, and even write fan fiction about it if they so desire. But "shipping" them onscreen (or in official, non-fan writing) is just lame and lazy writing. To me, the most boring, obvious relationship you can establish between two characters usually is a sexual relationship. All complexity and depth is reduced to a sexual drive that can at best only be indirectly shown/described anyway. The complex (albeit sometimes inconsistent) relationships among the Big Three is one of the great joys of the show. To me, to retroactively say it was all about one of them trying to get one or more of the others in bed flattens those relationships and impoverishes the show. Just seems like a misplaced idea.
But again, to each their own. I'm not going to tell someone else how to enjoy the show.
But again, to each their own. I'm not going to tell someone else how to enjoy the show.
I think I heard a clip from a radio interview once where a shock jock asked Jimmy Doohan about Kirk/Spock slash fiction. Jimmy hadn't known there was such a thing, and he wasn't happy about it. The idea made him a little angry.
I recall George Takei not being happy when they made Kelvin Sulu gay because that wasn't how the character was written and that wasn't how he played the character.
It was a curiously forced idea as Kirk way too obviously was attracted to women (even if his reputation as a womanizer is vastly exaggerated) and not just any women but a specific type of blonde (Ariel Shaw, Ruth, Drusilla, Carol Marcus, etc). Men CAN be friends with other men without it being romantic or sexual.
I have a few lady friends that I meet up with regularly but am not engaged in a sexual or loving relationship with. It's possible. 
JB
JB
The poll asks for an opinion concerning the relationship between Kirk & Spock, And I've given an answer to that.
The question the poll asks, however, is not the same one as that given in the thread title:
What do I think about people "shipping" those characters, or any others?
If they want to, I think they should go right ahead. Because it's their fantasy or their fanfic.
No one else is under any obligation whatsoever to play along, or even to pay any attention at all... unless, of course, they really want to.
If they don't want to, then they shouldn't give it another moment's thought, and they absolutely should not post defensive rants, expressing indignance that anyone could dare to be so irreverent as to *have* such an idea. Because they ought to realize that that kind of performative nonsense just looks silly.
That's what I think.
The question the poll asks, however, is not the same one as that given in the thread title:
What do I think about people "shipping" those characters, or any others?
If they want to, I think they should go right ahead. Because it's their fantasy or their fanfic.
No one else is under any obligation whatsoever to play along, or even to pay any attention at all... unless, of course, they really want to.
If they don't want to, then they shouldn't give it another moment's thought, and they absolutely should not post defensive rants, expressing indignance that anyone could dare to be so irreverent as to *have* such an idea. Because they ought to realize that that kind of performative nonsense just looks silly.
That's what I think.
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