What would happen with Kes and Neelix if they were still aboard Voyager when the ship reached Earth?
- Thread starter BohandiAnsoid
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As I said, some people can't ignore the elephant-sized two-candled birthday cake in the room. That's why any romance featuring Kes on the show was going to be controversial.
I have to repeat that people are staring too much at the numbers.
Kes was equivalent to a 19-25 years old at that time.
No one complains that Tuvok should be in a home for old people instead of an officer on a starship. he was 107 years in 2371 when Voyager ended up in the Delta Quadrant.
But I have to agree that some of the criticism is correct because once again we have the idiocy with the nine year lifespan which was hampering the character Kes.
The writers should have realized their mistake and given kes a prolonged lifespan or came up with something about Ocampa planet having a 10-year orbiot around the sun.
The whole idea with a nine year lifespan was horrible. Such a species would never develope into more than primates.
They should have realized it and prolonged Kes's lifespan.
But they just went on like "ah never mind, the viewers won't notice".
But the viewers DID notice.
As for your wife and kid, just explain that Kes is actually a 20-25 year old. You can always use my plan B as excise, the one which states that the Ocampa planet has a 10 years orbit around the sun.
Kes had her 2nd birthday in Twisted , so about 6 weeks into season 2 which would mean she was about 10.5-11 months old in Caretaker.
She appears to be an adult in Caretaker.
Neelix and Kes already had something going by that time - we don't know for how long. Could have just been a few days, could have been longer (*). So I suppose it is possible he started a relation with her when she wasn't even a full adult by Ocampa standards. But it's impossible to say.
(* perhaps the script does establish something, but I can't remember.)
She appears to be an adult in Caretaker.
Neelix and Kes already had something going by that time - we don't know for how long. Could have just been a few days, could have been longer (*). So I suppose it is possible he started a relation with her when she wasn't even a full adult by Ocampa standards. But it's impossible to say.
(* perhaps the script does establish something, but I can't remember.)
It looks horrible. At the very least, just look at what it suggests: Truck Driving man runs kidnaps and abuses pre-teen girl.
I'm a dad with < 16 year old daughter. I know how I feel about that scenario.
It's quite bizarre and weird that the creators, Berman, Pillar, and Taylor, ran with this idea. What the heck were they thinking?
It might be one of, if not the worst, creative decisions in the Star Trek franchise.
Seems to be typical of them... they think we're dumber than a sack of hammers.
It was probably a misguided attempt to make Kes unique. They'd had a number of long-lived species... they figured it was time to go the other way.
Actually, "Non Sequitur" revealed that it took place 8 months after Voyager was lost, so she'd be about 16 months old at the start.
Not exactly. Regardless of audience theories regarding her mental age, Kes was clearly fully physically matured.
I ask that a lot where they're concerned.
Obviously since they often came up with things that didn't work or contradicted earlier events and then they just didn't care. They just moved on as if nothing had happened.
Misguided is exactly what it was because it was so unrealistic and damaged the character.
But the worst thing is that they didn't do anything to correct it. They must have realized somewhere in season 2 that it didn't work because tjhey just shoved the whole problem in the backgroound and only brought it up when they had some episode in which it was used, like Before And After.
And then (Linnis and Kim) it all went wrong again.
The events in Caretaker took place between Stardates 48308.2 (Friday 23 April 2371) and Stardate 48315.6 (Monday 26 April 2371.
The events in non Sequitur took place at Stardate 49011.0 (Wednesday 5 january) so 8 months and a few days.
Not to mention that Kes was never kidnapped by Neelix.
He actually saved her from the kazon, with the help of the Voyager crew.
They didn't even share the same quarters on Voyager (even if some early book episodes mentions that they did).
Me too.
Sometimes they didn't even seem to remember what they had done in the previous period.
Compare that to DS9 where continuation worked perfect.
Ironic that Voyager, the show which needed most continuity didn't have much of it.
She's not the only character who was shoved aside thus. Nor was she the worst victim of this. I still say the show should have killed off Harry... better to get some mileage out of his death than keep him in limbo the way they did.
And not only that, he could have appeared on "Lower Decks" exactly as he did: none of the Harry clones on that show was "our" Harry.
I tend to think that by B&A, they had decided to eliminate Kes. So, they wanted to compress the life she had been intended to lead into a single episode. And really point out the crazy dynamics of it: how two men of relatively similar age could be father and son in law.
"Resolutions" took place over 3-4 months, so it righted the ship, in terms of time passed.
Ironic that DS9 was the redheaded stepchild, and had the B-team shunted over to it... but that B-team forged a masterpiece, while the A team led by Berman created a show that was passable but unexceptional.
And I don't lay that at the cast's feet. The VOY cast was just as strong as DS9's. The latter was just better used.
I must state that Kes was the worst victim and I base that statement on one thing: That episode in season 6.
I've seen a lot of character destruction but that was the worst I've ever seen.
The only I can compare with was an episode in a police series called Pacific Blue where a police officer who had resigned in an earlier season was brought back to be killed off.
The difference is that he came back as a heatrtbroken man, the result of his girlfriend being killed in an earlier episode while the "Kes" we saw in that episode was a monster.
As for Harry, we have different opinions about if he should have been killed off or not. Anyway, I must also blame the writers of the "Voyager relaunch books" who didn't dare to promote him.
I'm not so sure of that. There are rumors who say that harry was about to be dumped but that they changed their minds after that article about Garret Wang where he was pointed out as "one of the 50 most handsome".
The events in resolutions took place from Stardate 49690.1 (Saturday 9 September 2372) to Stardate 50037.2 (14 January 2373) when the events in the episode Basics started so I would rather say about one month.
That's true.
The B team rose to the occasion and came up with something which developed and got better and better while Berman and his gang had stagnated during the time with TNG and were out of ideas in Voyager's season 3.
I must give credit to Berman, Braga and the others for TNG. It was a masterpiece.
But they were burned out after thats eries and had no ideas and nothing to come up with when it came to Voyager. The result was that they wasted what couild have been an excellent series.
The formula they had after running out of ideas were basically old stunt tricks.
Sort of: "Let's bring in a sexy babe. The vievers love sexy babes!"
Or: Let's bring in TNG characters, the viewers love TNG!"
At the end it was: "Let's insult the viewers as much as possible while we get the hell out of her as soon as possible so we can concentrate on making a retro series, a new TOS which will be what TOS should have been".
The cast wasn't the problem. It was excellent.
DS9 had an great cast which developed and got better and better.
VOY had an excellent cast which stagnated.
Everything you said was dead on, save this. All VOY crew received promotion in "Homecoming", including Harry. It wasn't as good as Janeway's autobiography, which had Janeway's last act as Voyager's captain be to promote him to lieutenant, and also had his rise rapidly through the ranks. That was the perfect middle finger to Berman and Braga, showing their "someone gotta be duh ensign" idiocy the scorn it deserved.
Harry was promoted to Lieutenant in the relaunch as well, not only that but he was promoted to Tuvok's old role of Second Officer (and was actually Acting First Officer for a while, but was assigned as an exchange officer to a local DQ fleet shortly afterward).
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