A few things to discuss about Kes

[Oddish]

Not to mention that the series was fresh and full of ideas, something which started to fade in season 3.

True. By killing off Seska and Suder and not establishing other good recurring conflicts, it was full speed ahead down Stagnation Alley.

Killing off Spock in that movie was a mistake. They should have realized that Star Trek would have problems without him and should have let him stay alive if they could manage to persuade Nimoy to continue as Spock or at least maybe return some time in the future.

Which they did. But it was one seriously glorious death, in the meantime.

Better to let Worf and Martok live with that disgrace. At least none of them were killed off or ruined to the point of no salvation.

I can imagine the songs made up about them. "The 51-Second Chancellor" and "Worf's Sock Puppet".

There should be some decent person out there who would dare to do something about it.

Someone did. That's why Harry's name wound up on the heroes wall. It was a much delayed slap across both the VOY showrunners' faces, and that of the "forever ensign" crowd.

It is actually funny! I like Tom's little joke there!

It's so Tom Paris.

But fortunately, there are bands who have managed to last for centuries and still manages to come up with good music.

I think you mean "decades". A century is 100 years.

I just don't have any sense of this of destruction or rudeness.

I would have more considered it "misguided". But I don't know, if they can crap on one character, they can crap on more.

Never mind my experience with literature, were main characters died by the end. So my desire to preserve lessened over years because the story is never a promise of a happy ending.

And even when you have a happy ending, you often need to have a few casualties along the way. Voyager had a happy ending, but 39 of the people on the ship did not.

You have ones like Oasis who haven't tried to "find the magic" but releasing new material but have just done the classics which works - and it is defo just for the money but their "Manc dickhead" personalities makes that work

Even an artist has to eat.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Even an artist has to eat.

Agreed...although I doubt that the Gallagher's were worried about their card being declined in Waitrose anytime soon!

Back on topic - agree strongly about how the show suffered for the loss of Seska, especially as she wasn't quite moustache twirling and had layers to her (very pleased to see her return in Shattered)

Suder had potential, and did get a bit of a hero/redemption moment, but don't think Voyager was the series to handle the nuance of such a dark and conflicted character (although they did give that dark side a go later on with the episode where Tuvok gets activated (I think it was Tuvok - should really double check...) by a message from the Alpha Quadrant