He had the perfect opportunity for growth: starry-eyed ensign to hardened, seasoned spacefarer. The showrunners were just too incompetent to allow it.
Changed Opinion Of A Character...
- Thread starter Farscape One
- Start date
Why was "Timeless" Kim so much more interesting than regular Kim?
I'm asking rhetorically, but it's like they opened a door to show how Kim could evolve and that Wang was capable of playing something other than Ensign Happy-Go-Lucky, and then they just left the door hanging open.
Positive: Neelix
Man, I found him SUPER annoying at first, but really liked him by the end. Once the whole Paris/Kes thing was over, he got much better. I dug him by the end.
Runner up: Bashir was super shallow at the start, but he grew.
Negative: Dukat & Kai Winn Adami
Loved them as antagonists with shades of grey and flaws,,but some interesting qualities. Hated them both going full mustache twirling villan in S7.
Runner up: Chekov. In the series only. He was good in the movies. But the "we invented that/did it best in Russia schtick got old.
Man, I found him SUPER annoying at first, but really liked him by the end. Once the whole Paris/Kes thing was over, he got much better. I dug him by the end.
Runner up: Bashir was super shallow at the start, but he grew.
Negative: Dukat & Kai Winn Adami
Loved them as antagonists with shades of grey and flaws,,but some interesting qualities. Hated them both going full mustache twirling villan in S7.
Runner up: Chekov. In the series only. He was good in the movies. But the "we invented that/did it best in Russia schtick got old.
I believe it was a deliberate policy because of their negative relationship with the actor. Did they not plan to sack Wang?
They reportedly did, and reportedly he might have even deserved it at one point. But even so, whether their actions were from incompetence or childish spite, they were contemptible either way.
Mine was Pulaski. I still don't feel too fondly of her, but my first exposure to her was when I was eleven and didn't pick up on anything about her character past "oh, she's mean to Data."
I now understand this isn't all there is to her and thus like her a considerable amount more and dislike her a considerable amount less.
I now understand this isn't all there is to her and thus like her a considerable amount more and dislike her a considerable amount less.
I'd say more importantly, once the decision was made not to sack him, they should have gotten over it and focused on the writing, not on their personal feelings with regard to the actor.
In other words, acted professionally. Imagine that, right?
Seven's improved the most for me. Originally I despised her simply for replacing Kes, one of my favorite characters when I first watched Voyager. On my recent rewatch I could appreciate her for being an interesting character, and I absolutely love her on Picard.
Another character that I used to dislike but who's grown on me on subsequent rewatches is Pulaski. Sure, she could make questionable decisions sometimes, but Crusher's no better.
Now that I'm watching Picard, I'm officially done with Data.
Another character that I used to dislike but who's grown on me on subsequent rewatches is Pulaski. Sure, she could make questionable decisions sometimes, but Crusher's no better.
Now that I'm watching Picard, I'm officially done with Data.
Quark.
At first, he's presented as someone who would cross almost any ethical boundary to make a deal (e.g., the man a ran a business for the Cardassians when Terok Nor was basically a concentration camp).
And the more you learn about him, the more you realize that some of his insecurities about being a "good Ferengi" comes from the fact that he does have a moral center. That he's willing to take risks beyond the Rules of Acquisition to help people, including when he was running a black market to get food to the Bajoran slaves.
I also thought part of what makes Quark's commentary on humanity so incisive and thought-provoking is that it doesn't come from ignorance. When he confronts Sisko, about Sisko's bias against the Ferengi, he mentions human slavery and Nazi concentration camps. That means Quark went through the trouble of actually researching human history, and his skepticism of Federation values doesn't come from discrimination based in ignorance, but a fear based in human history.
At first, he's presented as someone who would cross almost any ethical boundary to make a deal (e.g., the man a ran a business for the Cardassians when Terok Nor was basically a concentration camp).
And the more you learn about him, the more you realize that some of his insecurities about being a "good Ferengi" comes from the fact that he does have a moral center. That he's willing to take risks beyond the Rules of Acquisition to help people, including when he was running a black market to get food to the Bajoran slaves.
I also thought part of what makes Quark's commentary on humanity so incisive and thought-provoking is that it doesn't come from ignorance. When he confronts Sisko, about Sisko's bias against the Ferengi, he mentions human slavery and Nazi concentration camps. That means Quark went through the trouble of actually researching human history, and his skepticism of Federation values doesn't come from discrimination based in ignorance, but a fear based in human history.
I was fairly okay with Data in S1, but the contrivances to bring back Spiner in S2 and S3 stretched my interest to the breaking point.
I used to think Armus was a real piece of shit, but on reflection and increasingly over the years, I feel he is just misunderstood by most.
He’s lonely and he just wanted to give Tasha a hug, but it went wrong. Poor Armus. He’s like the Star Trek equivalent of Charlie Brown, except with no Snoopy.
Good grief.
And the lesson here is, don’t post when high.
He’s lonely and he just wanted to give Tasha a hug, but it went wrong. Poor Armus. He’s like the Star Trek equivalent of Charlie Brown, except with no Snoopy.
Good grief.
And the lesson here is, don’t post when high.
Same for me. As an adult, I found the character soooo self-righteous it physically hurt to watch at times.
She even got on Q's nerves.
I'm the other way around. If they'd kept Spiner and Data out of S1/S2, and only brought him back for the big reunion in S3, then I would have liked it better.
I likely would have appreciated him more in S3 if he hadn't appeared in S1/2.
I used to tolerate the TOS version of Chapel, but I can't stand her now. Every scene she has is just her mooning over Mr. Spock to no avail, a plot that never develops in the slightest. It's boring, repetitive, and a waste of time, and I now know that those scenes were only in the show to give the producer's girlfriend something to do.
(Please note that this ONLY applies to the TOS version of Chapel. The SNW version I find much more interesting, because she has an actual personality.)
I suppose my opinion of Riker has lowered somewhat over the years. Now he often comes off as a horny idiot, much like the pop culture stereotype of Captain Kirk.
I like Janeway a lot more than I used to. When I first watched her VOY in the 90s, I found her annoying. Now I find her much more entertaining, especially how much she hates time travel.
Geordi's characterization in "Galaxy's Child" REALLY hasn't aged well. He's fine in "Booby Trap," as that's just a story about a guy having a crush on a fantasy girlfriend. But the Geordi in "Galaxy's Child" gets bent out of shape when Leah Brahms doesn't feel the same way about him, stupidly rants about "offering her friendship" when she's understandably upset about her image and personal logs being used without her consent, and worst of all, the episode has HER apologize to HIM at the end of the episode, when she was the one who was wronged. Geordi just comes off as a creepy incel in that episode.
(Please note that this ONLY applies to the TOS version of Chapel. The SNW version I find much more interesting, because she has an actual personality.)
I suppose my opinion of Riker has lowered somewhat over the years. Now he often comes off as a horny idiot, much like the pop culture stereotype of Captain Kirk.
I like Janeway a lot more than I used to. When I first watched her VOY in the 90s, I found her annoying. Now I find her much more entertaining, especially how much she hates time travel.
Geordi's characterization in "Galaxy's Child" REALLY hasn't aged well. He's fine in "Booby Trap," as that's just a story about a guy having a crush on a fantasy girlfriend. But the Geordi in "Galaxy's Child" gets bent out of shape when Leah Brahms doesn't feel the same way about him, stupidly rants about "offering her friendship" when she's understandably upset about her image and personal logs being used without her consent, and worst of all, the episode has HER apologize to HIM at the end of the episode, when she was the one who was wronged. Geordi just comes off as a creepy incel in that episode.
Me too. Geordi should have (1) dumped the Leah hologram soon as Booby Trap was over, (2) not tried to bang the real McCoy two minutes after they met, and (3) failing those two things, once hus dubious little holo girl toy was discovered, APOLOGIZED PROFUSELY FOR BEING A MAJOR DICK!
I think I was fine with his behavior up until he deliberately tried to make a dinner setting he thought would appeal to her using knowledge he wouldn't have had if he hadn't used the holoprogam. That was just blatantly and creepily manipulative.
Gosh Geordi, maybe try to get to know the real person instead of relying on knowledge gained from a computer facsimile?
Obviously it goes downhill from there.
Gosh Geordi, maybe try to get to know the real person instead of relying on knowledge gained from a computer facsimile?
Obviously it goes downhill from there.
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