The one thing Discovery did fail to do (for me) was make Michael Burnham interesting in her own right, beyond her connection with Spock.
Why the hate for Alex Kurtzman?
- Thread starter HotRod
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The one thing Discovery did fail to do (for me) was make Michael Burnham interesting in her own right, beyond her connection with Spock.
I agree with that, and "Duet" is one of my favorite episodes of DS9. The fourth season of Discovery just happened to work for me, but then all of that just comes down to opinion.
TMP isn't my favorite Star Trek movie, that's TWOK, but it's one I have great respect for.
"Calypso" is my all-time favorite thing to come out of Discovery (and New Trek as a whole), even though it was Short Treks, it had two interesting characters -- Zora and Craft -- who held my attention throughout, and it was a nice, quiet love story. Penned by Michael Chabon, who later wrote "Remembrance" (PIC), my second favorite thing to come out of all of New Trek.
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I was debating whether or not to bring this up on here because I figured no one would have any idea what I was talking about, but screw it. You're probably hardcore enough to have an idea of what I'm talking about.
I mostly stopped buying comics in 2011. I was mainly a Batman fan. And it just got to be too many titles, I was making too little money at the time, deep in debt, then came Flashpoint and I just stopped. I was completely done with comics. Or so I thought.
Then, in 2012, IDW announced that Simon Furman was coming out with Transformers: Regeneration One and it was picking up 20 years after #80 of the original run. Not only did I buy the G1 comic when I was a kid, but also the G2 comic, and then later on, I read as many of the UK stories as I could. I was super-pumped, super-excited for Regeneration One. Then, meanwhile there were these other comic fans who were saying they liked Robots In Disguise and More Than Meets the Eye better.
Substitute Regeneration One with Picard Season 3, substitute RID and MTMTE with Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds... and that's basically the Star Trek argument I find myself stuck in today!
I don't care which one you like, or whose side you're on, whatever, it doesn't matter to me, it's all water under the bridge at this point, but it's funny the ways in which fandoms can parallel each other.
Regardless of who is actually responsible, there does seem to have been a notable dumbing-down of the franchise since 2009.
In what way?
Other than Section 31, I haven't noticed.
DISCO failed there with me, as well. They failed in a multitude of things.
(While DISCO does have the spirit of the franchise in it, there's just too much that didn't work for me to find it a good show.)
I've seen the Transformers movies.
Nu Trek is not mindless in it's action. I'd say QPid was more mindless.
It's certainly an odd thing to say, when Discovery season 4 presented the most high-concept scifi depiction of an alien race the franchise has seen in decades.
Not only that, but Discovery Season 4 is also the only Star Trek that's ever referenced the Kardaschev Scale.
Everything seems bigger, shinier, flashier, more dramatic....but often at the cost of more thought-provoking concepts.
Sometimes it feels like they're trying to turn Trek into Wars.
Really, was that really the first time it's been referenced in ST?
Yes.
Unless there's something I'm misremembering, but I doubt it. I've re-watched TNG and VOY in their entirety. Over the years, I've slowly re-watched all of TOS. I'm only in the middle of re-watching the third season of DS9, but I don't remember it being mentioned there either.
Things look flashier because the technology used to make the things has improved. As for the rest, I disagree entirely.
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The more exceptional they tried to make her, the less compelling her story was to me.
I just watched the TOS episode where Scotty murders a hooker and Kirk manages to blame it on Jack the Ripper with the help of a witch and the Enterprise’s mind-reading computer.
It was great. Thought-provoking it was not.
Star Trek can be pretty lurid and sensationalist when it wants to be, and that’s fine.
It was great. Thought-provoking it was not.
Star Trek can be pretty lurid and sensationalist when it wants to be, and that’s fine.
I think I know what you're trying to get at. You're thinking of particular way that Star Trek carried itself more than anything else, in which case you have the wrong cut-off point. You're thinking mainly of TNG, TOS to a lesser extent, and then there was DS9 challenging everything TNG said.
If this is the case, then you might want to change it to "since VOY and ENT" not "since 2009". You can throw Nemesis in there too.
I'm talking in broad stroke generalities here, so there's no confusion.
I think the fact that Trek only does 10 episode seasons, at most, and the fact that they have insanely large budgets is part of what is hurting it for me with modern Trek.
Some of the best stores of the earlier shows, IMHO, came out of the fact that (1) they had to come up with things to fill 26 episodes per year and (2) they had to do things like bottle shows to try to save money. If it weren't for those two things, for example, we might never have ended up with episodes like "The Drumhead."
I feel like we're missing those stand-alone, not-connected-to-any-arcs, very simple episodes that ended up being so beloved and meaningful.
Some of the best stores of the earlier shows, IMHO, came out of the fact that (1) they had to come up with things to fill 26 episodes per year and (2) they had to do things like bottle shows to try to save money. If it weren't for those two things, for example, we might never have ended up with episodes like "The Drumhead."
I feel like we're missing those stand-alone, not-connected-to-any-arcs, very simple episodes that ended up being so beloved and meaningful.
I think fans need to give up on the idea of there ever being a long season of Star Trek, or any other niche program, ever again. The entertainment industry has changed tremendously. It ain't going back.
I agree with that 100%, and as it applies to the topic of this thread, nothing that Alex Kurtzman has anything to do with. That said, "Ad Astra per Asperea" could be ranked up there with 'The Drumhead", although that might have had an expensive subplot that I'm not remembering.
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