Why the hate for Alex Kurtzman?

[ananta]

TOS had a variety of tones but for me underneath it's skin , it still felt that it was portraying an overall positive vibe and human outlook . Part of it is the cinematography too .Modern Trek is filmed much more with dark lighting. Like allot of TV is .Even darker than DS9 was shot. That only adds to the dark vibe that makes it even less feel like Star Trek and blends in with other sci-fi. Some would argue it adds a cinematic feel to it. To a degree maybe but I still think its over used. Star Trek 6 had a dark theme but the lighting wasnt too dark. And I don't think the movie suffered for it.

Here comes a somewhat off tangent rant, but cinematography is awful these days. The trend is “natural lighting”, meaning they don’t want you to think there are studio lights but only whatever light sources might be in the environment. Problem is, this makes for a flat, muddy, frequently dark picture. Picard Season 3 was just the nadir; it was shockingly bad. It was often a struggle to see who was doing what.

Back in the day, the director of photography could easily do a darker scene but they still had the sense to use the proper lighting to actually LIGHT the actors. Perfect, artful use of chiaroscuro. Generations is an example of how to do this well. P3 is an example of how NOT do anything visually.

 

[trekfan_1]

Here comes a somewhat off tangent rant, but cinematography is awful these days. The trend is “natural lighting”, meaning they don’t want you to think there are studio lights but only whatever light sources might be in the environment. Problem is, this makes for a flat, muddy, frequently dark picture. Picard Season 3 was just the nadir; it was shockingly bad. It was often a struggle to see who was doing what.

Back in the day, the director of photography could easily do a darker scene but they still had the sense to use the proper lighting to actually LIGHT the actors. Perfect, artful use of chiaroscuro. Generations is an example of how to do this well. P3 is an example of how NOT do anything visually.

Agreed! Now I get this vision of cinematographer nowadays sitting in a chair eating a burger and pressing a button labeled " darken image to make it look edgy and kewl!"

I'm ofcouse exaggerating. But it does seem theres less rhyme and reason with all the dark lighting everywhere .

 

[HotRod]

DS9 was the show that balanced light and dark the most and the best.

Yeah, I'd agree with this statement. To me, it'll always be the show that finally added a little much needed darkness back to the franchise. I've never subscribed to the TNG image of a perfect society, free of internal conflict. DS9 showed characters acting like they had genuine human emotions. And as you said, balanced the light and the dark near perfectly.

Fair point. I think part of it for me comes down to simply whether you find characters likeable or not. If a character feels hollow, your naturally going to find any attempt of humor or redemption feel artificial or forced. With most modern Trek, I would put my ratio of liking a character around 70/30 against. With section 31 it ws 100 against. With previous Treks it was about 80/20 favoring liking the characters. Whether that's liking them as a character ot just how they were written and or portrayed.

What's funny is that I find the modern characters have far more in common with TOS Characters. It all seems to depend on how human you want your characters to act.

But Kurtzman goes above and beyond to make a point the Trek optimistic style of story telling is still there.

Because it is. You can't watch SNW without seeing the optimism. Or Prodigy, Lower Decks, even Discovery's later seasons were all about bringing the optimistic outlook back to a society that had fallen on dark times.

Part of it is the cinematography too .Modern Trek is filmed much more with dark lighting.

The only show I've found overly dark was Picard.

 

[trekfan_1]

If hypothetically Star Trek did a John wick style movie, where every scene has shoot um up death it it, I gureentee you Kurtzman would go on startrek.con and do interviews promoting it as a bit different but alsio very Star Trek at its core and following Gene's vision.

The actors would do promotional interviews praising Star Trek about it's optimistic soul. No matter what role they have or what the movie or show was about Even if it was a x rated porno they would probably on to say it's Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry blah blah blah...That is what infuriates me the most. Ok I'm exaggerating again but only to make a point. Kurtzman comes off as a used car salesman to me. Just my own vibe on his public interviews

 

[Tomalak]

I don't think blaming him for a hypothetical that you just made up is really legitimate criticism.

 

[trekfan_1]

I don't think blaming him for a hypothetical that you just made up is really legitimate criticism.

It was,at best , what I considered an educated guess based on what ive seen of him in the public eye, at worse its my own arguable personal opinion and take on what he would do. Admittedly subjective and biased but my overall feeling about how he comes across is real feedback and applicable in a thread asking why many dislike him.

 

[Turtletrekker]

It sounds more like a straw man to me.

 

[fireproof78]

TOS had a variety of tones but for me underneath it's skin , it still felt that it was portraying an overall positive vibe and human outlook . Part of it is the cinematography too .Modern Trek is filmed much more with dark lighting. Like allot of TV is .Even darker than DS9 was shot. That only adds to the dark vibe that makes it even less feel like Star Trek and blends in with other sci-fi. Some would argue it adds a cinematic feel to it. To a degree maybe but I still think its over used. Star Trek 6 had a dark theme but the lighting wasnt too dark. And I don't think the movie suffered for it.

Vibes are hard to pin down. I'd say even say Stargate hit the TNG vibe too.

I don't know about light or dark. I blame watching on VHS but it's not something that jumps out at me so the impact is limited to what I think creates that feel.

I just don't think Star Trek has fully shied away from the positive aspect even in newer Trek. I think it plays with themes that occurred across the franchise history but in different ways.

 

[trekfan_1]

It sounds more like a straw man to me.

Strawmans would apply more within a factual debate. My take is not factual it's subjective. My opinion is just that.. an opinion . I'm not saying I'm right or others should feel the same way.

 

[fireproof78]

hypothetically Star Trek did a John wick style movie, where every scene has shoot um up death it it, I gureentee you Kurtzman would go on startrek.con and do interviews promoting it as a bit different but alsio very Star Trek at its core and following Gene's vision.

So, a revenge story?

Kirk would approve.

 

[Nerys Myk]

If hypothetically Star Trek did a John wick style movie, where every scene has shoot um up death it it, I gureentee you Kurtzman would go on startrek.con and do interviews promoting it as a bit different but alsio very Star Trek at its core and following Gene's vision.

The actors would do promotional interviews praising Star Trek about it's optimistic soul. No matter what role they have or what the movie or show was about Even if it was a x rated porno they would probably on to say it's Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry blah blah blah...That is what infuriates me the most. Ok I'm exaggerating again but only to make a point. Kurtzman comes off as a used car salesman to me. Just my own vibe on his public interviews

Part of the job.

 

[HotRod]

If hypothetically Star Trek did a John wick style movie, where every scene has shoot um up death it it,

Meh, I'd watch it.

I gureentee you Kurtzman would go on startrek.con and do interviews promoting it as a bit different but alsio very Star Trek at its core and following Gene's vision.

Of course he would, that's part of his job. Plus, I fail to see how something being an action movie somehow means it cannot be Star Trek. I seem to recall them using their phasers plenty of times back in the day.

The actors would do promotional interviews praising Star Trek about it's optimistic soul.

I've yet to see any Trek that was free of Trek optimism. Even Section 31.

Even if it was a x rated porno they would probably on to say it's Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry blah blah blah...

Sounds like something Gene would've loved!

 

[trekfan_1]

Part of the job.

Doesn't mean I like it. Feel the same when my office does corporate bull crap morale activity that feels fake.

And yes thats true to some extent to previous Trek promotion and other media. Just feels even moreso "fake" with the current regime of showrunners. (IMO)

Not as much the actors, though I get they must promote no matter what......unless your Robert Beltran

 

[Danja]

So, a revenge story?

Kirk would approve.

See: The Wrath of Khan

 

[fireproof78]

See: The Wrath of Khan

Friday's Child.

The Search for Spock.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Doesn't mean I like it. Feel the same when my office does corporate bull crap morale activity that feels fake.

And yes thats true to some extent to previous Trek promotion and other media. Just feels even moreso "fake" with the current regime of showrunners. (IMO)

Not as much the actors, though I get they must promote no matter what......unless your Robert Beltran

Its no worse that before. You just don't like the product.

 

[fireproof78]

Its no worse that before. You just don't like the product.

I think that's what it comes down to is just not liking the product. And, maybe this is the first time for many not liking a Trek product and it's highly uncomfortable. Or, possibly, the good just outweighed the outright horrible due to sheer volume in older productions.

 

[Turtletrekker]

See: The Wrath of Khan

Friday's Child.

The Search for Spock.

Trials and Tribble-ations.

 

[trekfan_1]

Its no worse that before. You just don't like the product.

One person's view on a subjective opinion is not measurable . Just how I see it. I've seen stuff that i dislike but didn't get a used car salesman vibes on the production people behind it. And vice versa.

 

[Nerys Myk]

One person's view on a subjective opinion is not measurable . Just how I see it. I've seen stuff that i dislike but didn't get a used car salesman vibes on the production people behind it.

You see what you see.