We don't just need canon police.
We need tone police, feel police and technology police.
Plus, establishing shots police to ensure the ship looks right every time.
Why the hate for Alex Kurtzman?
- Thread starter HotRod
- Start date
We need tone police, feel police and technology police.
Plus, establishing shots police to ensure the ship looks right every time.
You sure about that?
I saw another conversation about McCoy in the TNG premier and one argument was that McCoy was included so fans knew this was STAR TREK!
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It's almost as if we need... some person who can... run the show... and have executive authority on how to produce the show.
If only that type of job existed on a television series.
The SNW writers and producers did not reboot the Gorn by accident. I'm certain they read Memory Alpha before deciding to do their own thing.
Speaking as a practicing Catholic, I'd trust the members of this board to do better than Vatican II did...
Doesn't matter if you got the most consistent script with Trek Canon and Lore imaginable. What matter is is it an entertaining episode? I sure as shit know I would rather watch the most entertaining episode imaginable that pisses all over canon than a terrible episode that's completely consistent with canon. Like Doctor Who's Russell T Davies said, if it comes down to a choice between serving the story or serving continuity, serving the story should be the choice which is always made.
Seriously? RMB is the guy who said a woman deserves to be publicly sexually assaulted for writing an episode he didn't like. That kind of behavior should not be tolerated by anyone.
I didn't even know who that guy is, I had to look him up.
I don't know the man personally, nor have I been given the 'wrath' of his content outside of LD (And I like LD) and a few other scattered bits as I've just been working myself through things at my own pace, but I can see why someone could hate on em' just like they could hate on the other guys. Kinda like a Doctor Who situation even if I will say hating Russ is just a comfortable routine now. I digress, I just see all of this stuff as a part of the ever-continuing cycle of disliking change and then liking change, and then disliking change again. What really matters is Kurtzman has managed to summon up cold harsh cash, and that's the real thing that makes everyone there want to boldly go for anything.
Though if I could say anything personal I wish he'd just go all-in and shave the beard. Go clean shaven and feel the wind grace his cheeks as the mental energy from all of these posts speaking his name and influence add to his growing psychic aura.
Though if I could say anything personal I wish he'd just go all-in and shave the beard. Go clean shaven and feel the wind grace his cheeks as the mental energy from all of these posts speaking his name and influence add to his growing psychic aura.
Kurtzman also seems to let his show runners have more freedom, so the shows all feel different. As the unloved middle child, DS9 was the only one that got to be different in the Berman era.
I think it's also the way the TV market has changed. In Berman's day, DS9 was syndicated, so almost all of Paramount's focus was on the UPN shows.
But he was still heavily involved in DS9, I think fans underplay that. Ira Behr wasn't getting away with stuff without Berman's knowledge, he just had a longer leash than the Voyager writers.
In the streaming era, each of the shows is aiming at a slightly different demographic so there are more distinctive tonal differences.
I don't think people hate the man per se. What a lot of fans strongly dislike is what Star Trek has become in their eyes. It's not optimistic and bright, it's full of violence and the characters are not paragons of virtue or even likeable often. I mean, its impossible to consider that the old shows would have a character utter the phrase "yum, yum" whilst talking about killing a sentient life form. And then to have a character called "Gene" scraping up his remains ,whilst Jet Reno's character disrespects him, I mean, come on. Often, it seems like Star Trek is aping Star Wars, just with worse writing.
I'm on social media and almost 2/3rds of the comments (my estimate) on the upcoming Section 31 movie are negative. A lot of comments simply have the Picard facepalm meme or they just write that "this isn't Star Trek".
What irks me is that someone will then call them out for "Gatekeeping" - a horrible term. If someone writes "This isn't Star Trek", they are inevitably called out over on TrekMovie or TrekCore for "Gatekeeping". When all they are trying to express is their opinion. Of course, many people enjoy the new series and it certainly is Star Trek for them.
I'm on social media and almost 2/3rds of the comments (my estimate) on the upcoming Section 31 movie are negative. A lot of comments simply have the Picard facepalm meme or they just write that "this isn't Star Trek".
What irks me is that someone will then call them out for "Gatekeeping" - a horrible term. If someone writes "This isn't Star Trek", they are inevitably called out over on TrekMovie or TrekCore for "Gatekeeping". When all they are trying to express is their opinion. Of course, many people enjoy the new series and it certainly is Star Trek for them.
Because social media is a cesspool of negativity and toxicity. 2/3 of comments on any subject are negative.
It's not enough to simply not like something and move on; it has to be expressed in terms of "hate" in the writers and producers who created something that must be an affront to Star Trek.
We haven't even seen S31 yet, so how can anyone say whether it "is Star Trek" or not? I can tell you right now that it is. The evidence is in the title.
You might not like it, and that's perfectly fine. But it is an equally valid part of the Star Trek Universe and it absolutely is gatekeeping to say otherwise.
I still think Enterprise is objectively not a good television show, but it's obviously still a valid part of the Star Trek canon. I just don't particularly enjoy it so don't devote much time thinking about it. I may well feel the same about S31. I'll watch it and if I don't enjoy it I doubt I'll think about it again.
It's not enough to simply not like something and move on; it has to be expressed in terms of "hate" in the writers and producers who created something that must be an affront to Star Trek.
We haven't even seen S31 yet, so how can anyone say whether it "is Star Trek" or not? I can tell you right now that it is. The evidence is in the title.
You might not like it, and that's perfectly fine. But it is an equally valid part of the Star Trek Universe and it absolutely is gatekeeping to say otherwise.
I still think Enterprise is objectively not a good television show, but it's obviously still a valid part of the Star Trek canon. I just don't particularly enjoy it so don't devote much time thinking about it. I may well feel the same about S31. I'll watch it and if I don't enjoy it I doubt I'll think about it again.
This is what the Trek fans in the crew, the Mike Okudas, Ron Moores and Doug Drexlers, always used to help with.
Next to a big floating ruler, so we know they got the size correct
But they were never rigid about it. Mike Okuda in particular guided writers with things like stardates and starship names/registry numbers, but if they decided otherwise he didn't lose any sleep over it. He knew they were telling the stories and always had the last word.
Ron Moore basically single-handedly created the TNG Klingon culture, which retconned a bunch of things from TOS. He was also responsible for much of DS9's move away from the Federation being always virtuous and optimistic, which it never really was anyway. Corrupt badmirals and officials have been a staple since TOS.
The current crop of writers is absolutely full of Trek geeks, in a way the 1990s guys were not. You only have to look at an episode of any of the shows to know that a lack of familiarity with the Star Trek canon is categorically not the issue.
I'm reminded of the likely apocryphal story about now little involvement Berman actually had with DS9. It takes place at the time when Stephen Hawking had his cameo on TNG, Berman took him on a tour of the studio which included a trip to DS9's promenade set. While there, two behind the scenes guys were doing work, when they noticed the two of them. The first said "there's someone I never expected to see on this set." The other replied "Yeah, and he brought Professor Hawking with him."
SNW, Lower Decks and Prodigy are bright, optimistic with likable characters. Maybe the Lower Decks characters aren't "paragons of virtue" but the intent with that show is it's more about the everyday people of Starfleet.
Okay, so you're building you're entire argument around two episodes of Disco? Whatever.
But enough about the Picard finale.
Not to mention Ron Moore was the one who really injected military customs, particularly US Naval customs and practices into the franchise, and indeed has even claimed in interviews he does consider Starfleet to be a military, despite the official line the franchise is supposed to endorse that it isn't.
Which is probably a true sentiment, but not indicative of DS9 in particular. He was the head honcho, I'd be surprised if he spent much time on the TNG or VGR sets either.
The writers were pretty much banned from setting foot on the studio floor. David Livingston was Berman's representative on earth.
That's been true since TNG was announced. "No Kirk, no Spock no Trek!"
Bull. Worf talked openly about killing people all the time and often recommended it, sometimes with gusto.
I trust Picard Season 3 was deeply disappointing then because that end battle was The Enterprise D doing its best Millennium Falcon through the Death Star impression.
It is a different kind of issue. An issue where we are just being fed nostalgia as the driver of everything.
Like I said earlier, it probably is the main reason I’m not as engaged with this era of Trek.
I agree, the issue isn't that the writers "don't know good Star Trek" as is sometimes levelled at them. Clearly they know it too well, which is itself an issue.
Every series since 2017 has had some connection to TOS or the 90s shows to a lesser or greater degree.
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