What is your favorite pairing involving Kes (or do you think none is)?

[rocketscientist]

Yes. Under those circumstances, either Tom or Neelix would be a worthy match for her.

I agree. The age gap is really the problem (and the reproduction thing doesn't help either). If you made the Ocampans like all the other Star Trek humanoids, or did the time travel thing or whatever, then no harm no foul.

But, then, of course, you pretty much would take away the very unique element that is the basis for the Kes character to begin with.

The character was perhaps the franchise's worst conceived character to begin with and that was unfortunate for Ms. Lien. She was saddled with something that was hard to work with from the very beginning. I think she did the best she could with what she had.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

How does the "time travel thing" take away what she makes her unique?

I may be rearting myself, and certian other person, but what makes Kes unique is her personality, her determination,m courage, will to explore, compassion and her way of thinking outside the box.

 

[Oddish]

I may be rearting myself, and certian other person, but what makes Kes unique is her personality, her determination,m courage, will to explore, compassion and her way of thinking outside the box.

Hmmm, I wonder who that certain other person is?

But you're both right about Kes. She was a great character, worthy of further development. I can only imagine what VOY could have been like with all ten main characters, and a broken Reset Button.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Hmmm, I wonder who that certain other person is?

I will let you think But the anwser should be obvious.

 

[Oddish]

I will let you think But the anwser should be obvious.

Of course I know. Lynx and I are kindred spirits of a sort: Voyager fans who think the show did a particular character dirty.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Well, I am similar too. I only think it did a few charatcers dirty. It's only I focus on a wider picture than just Voyager.

 

[Oddish]

Well, I am similar too. I only think it did a few charatcers dirty. It's only I focus on a wider picture than just Voyager.

Certainly, I could list a lot of characters and actors who were done dirty by Trek... I just mention one more than others.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Yes, I nderstand... However, I think we should tranfer this discussion to a conversation... As we are taking up the thread.

 

[Oddish]

Normal phenomenon. In short, I like no one for Kes due to her chronological age. On an intellectual level I understand that two years for an Ocampa is nearly a quarter of their lifetime, they are adult sized, and there is no pedophilia involved... but there's still just something dodgy about it.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Well, I think diffrently. But I understand you.

 

[rocketscientist]

Of course I know. Lynx and I are kindred spirits of a sort: Voyager fans who think the show did a particular character dirty.

Oh, I agree on that too. That Fury episode was horrible. I'm no fan of Kes, but yeah, that was a very cynical and very low blow to the character and completely unwarranted.

 

[Oddish]

Indeed. While Kes's departure was unfortunate, at least "The Gift" had her go on a high note, continuing to explore and helping the people she loved. It should have ended there.

 

[rocketscientist]

Indeed. While Kes's departure was unfortunate, at least "The Gift" had her go on a high note, continuing to explore and helping the people she loved. It should have ended there.

Totally. The Fury episode was just gross. It's one of those things where you see it and wonder what the heck the producers were thinking, like Threshold and some of TNG's season 1 episodes.

I guess they were going for cheap shock value by having a former regular, who, obviously, had her fans, turn evil. I can't believe that anyone would think that it was a good analog for Alziemer's disease.

I wonder if Braga or other VOY writers discussed what led them to do Fury anywhere?

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

I don't know if they discussed it anywhere. I also didn't do much research on the subject, after reading what certain fan here had to tell about the episode. So I am not really interested in what they came up with to explain... What they did to Kes.

 

[Lynx]

Totally. The Fury episode was just gross. It's one of those things where you see it and wonder what the heck the producers were thinking, like Threshold and some of TNG's season 1 episodes.

I guess they were going for cheap shock value by having a former regular, who, obviously, had her fans, turn evil. I can't believe that anyone would think that it was a good analog for Alziemer's disease.

I wonder if Braga or other VOY writers discussed what led them to do Fury anywhere?

It was nothing but character destruction at its worst.

I know that some people disagree with me here but I think they did it on purpose, just to show the "finger" to the fans who wanted kes back.

 

[Oddish]

I know that some people disagree with me here but I think they did it on purpose, just to show the "finger" to the fans who wanted kes back.

I wouldn't wonder. Considering that Harry and Janeway's dialogue in "Nightingale" was probably similar in nature.

 

[Lynx]

I wouldn't wonder. Considering that Harry and Janeway's dialogue in "Nightingale" was probably similar in nature.

I never watched that episode but I will check up their dialogue.

 

[Oddish]

In many ways, "Before and After" was better than the story we got.
- The Year of Hell actually happened.
- Primary characters did not have plot armor.
- Tom faced loss... and learned to love again.
- Neelix and Chakotay faced new roles, and new challenges.
- The Doctor had a name.
- Harry got promoted. And had a romance that didn't blow up in his face.
- And Kes experienced the journey of life, with all its joys and sorrows.

 

[maneth]

It was nothing but character destruction at its worst.

I know that some people disagree with me here but I think they did it on purpose, just to show the "finger" to the fans who wanted kes back.

I certainly felt that way the first time I watched the show. I also hated Seven for the simple reason that she was brought in to replace Kes. On subsequent rewatches I've learned to appreciate Seven for what the character brings to the show. That said, I think I would've liked Seven even better if she'd been allowed to graduate to wearing a Starfleet uniform permanently at some point, I hated the catsuit.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Please, don't turn it into another Fury discussion. We have enough of these and they lead nowhere.