Same thing that happened to the Bajoran wormhole.
Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 5x10 - "The New Next Generation"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
It's out there but it is a really big galaxy and Picard, Prodigy and Disco had their own stories to tell.
Enjoyed it. Not as good as last week, but still a solid episode and a fine send off for the series.
I don't agree with the sentiment that says this proves Discovery is an alternate universe. The ripples from the portal were changing things into other possibilities. In the case of the Cerritos it became everything from a Sovereign to an Miranda class, from different dimension and times where thats what the Cerritos looked like. But these ships were also still things that still existed in our timeline. The same thing happened to the Bird of Prey, it turned into a different ship from a possible dimension where Klingons still maintained that look. I'm sure thins will be debated to no end.
I don't agree with the sentiment that says this proves Discovery is an alternate universe. The ripples from the portal were changing things into other possibilities. In the case of the Cerritos it became everything from a Sovereign to an Miranda class, from different dimension and times where thats what the Cerritos looked like. But these ships were also still things that still existed in our timeline. The same thing happened to the Bird of Prey, it turned into a different ship from a possible dimension where Klingons still maintained that look. I'm sure thins will be debated to no end.
I thought it was a good episode, but I am a bit disappointed because I wanted more. I would've liked to have seen the TNG "Lower Decks" characters, Kirk, Sisko, Archer, Riker, and Captain Worf but I can also understand why LD should get to go out focused on the LD crew.
Other things that come to mind:
-I wish this had been an hour episode.
-I wish one of the realities had been the actors in costume (like in the SNW crossover).
-Liked seeing the Disco Klingon and one of their ships again.
-Liked the payoff for Starbase 80.
-Also liked getting some inkling of the future for these characters but not enough to interfere with future stories (i.e. killing off Trip).
-Liked a lot of the starship changes but I didn't catch a NX-01, Constitution, or Intrepid.
-Why wouldn't Freeman know about the Freedom-class or single nacelle Starfleet ships?
Other things that come to mind:
-I wish this had been an hour episode.
-I wish one of the realities had been the actors in costume (like in the SNW crossover).
-Liked seeing the Disco Klingon and one of their ships again.
-Liked the payoff for Starbase 80.
-Also liked getting some inkling of the future for these characters but not enough to interfere with future stories (i.e. killing off Trip).
-Liked a lot of the starship changes but I didn't catch a NX-01, Constitution, or Intrepid.
-Why wouldn't Freeman know about the Freedom-class or single nacelle Starfleet ships?
Copying over my thoughts from another thread on the Disco-Klingon thing:
Clearly an alternate reality where the Augment Virus was never cured and the Klingons kept using Disco-era plastic surgery.
Clearly an alternate reality where the Augment Virus was never cured and the Klingons kept using Disco-era plastic surgery.
I thought that episode was just okay. It wasn't as good as last week's episode, nor did I think it was as good as some of the other season finales.
The Good:
- I like how they focused pretty much entirely on the Cerritos. I was a little nervous after last episode that they were going to cram in a lot of cameos, but they seemed to get that out of their systems and focus back on the main cast for their finale.
- Ransom comes off really good in this episode, taking the initiative to hide the Klingon brother and getting promoted in the end to captain, which I think is a good fit
- I wasn't expecting to see Starbase 80 again, but I kinda like the Freemans running it. I kinda think the opposite would almost be a better fit -- leaving the Cerritos crew in charge and promoting the Lower Decks cast to run the Starbase and dimensional stuff, but this worked as well
- I like beard Boimler and I'm happy to see he gets to keep it
- Changing the ship rather than introducing a bunch of cameos was a nice touch I thought. Someone on the staff is definitely a big ship nerd
- Science besties had a small, but satisfying moment with their friendship. I was surprised how "anime" that animation was, but it was fun
The Bad:
- This episode should've been an hour long episode, and I imagine the creators would agree. There was too much stuff going on this episode to comfortably fit in their runtime. Between the rift, Klingons, and conclusion it felt like they were really rushing through things. Some things I think they might have moved out to other episodes, but at the end of the day I think the studio simply wasn't going to give them more time
- I didn't care for the Rutherford plotline at all. Every season we get a "Rutherford's implant is causing problems" plot, typically at or near the finale. It's overstayed its welcome quite a bit. He also starts off uncharacteristically angry for most of the episode, then completely swings around right at the end. I think they should've had him "fall out of love" with the Cerritos slowly over the season, then resolved it here. I do like him removing the implant though, I think it's a nice end to his arc, even if it feels a bit random here (why did you do that like two seasons ago?)
- Having a stable metaverse rift opens a whole can of worms that LD has just kinda dumped onto the franchise, I'm not sure how I feel about it. If I didn't know better, it feels like a backdoor pilot for a Starbase 80 show that we'll never get.
- The Klingons were a good choice for a villain, but they kinda overstayed their welcome. Just shoot her, she's already firing on you
The Good:
- I like how they focused pretty much entirely on the Cerritos. I was a little nervous after last episode that they were going to cram in a lot of cameos, but they seemed to get that out of their systems and focus back on the main cast for their finale.
- Ransom comes off really good in this episode, taking the initiative to hide the Klingon brother and getting promoted in the end to captain, which I think is a good fit
- I wasn't expecting to see Starbase 80 again, but I kinda like the Freemans running it. I kinda think the opposite would almost be a better fit -- leaving the Cerritos crew in charge and promoting the Lower Decks cast to run the Starbase and dimensional stuff, but this worked as well
- I like beard Boimler and I'm happy to see he gets to keep it
- Changing the ship rather than introducing a bunch of cameos was a nice touch I thought. Someone on the staff is definitely a big ship nerd
- Science besties had a small, but satisfying moment with their friendship. I was surprised how "anime" that animation was, but it was fun
The Bad:
- This episode should've been an hour long episode, and I imagine the creators would agree. There was too much stuff going on this episode to comfortably fit in their runtime. Between the rift, Klingons, and conclusion it felt like they were really rushing through things. Some things I think they might have moved out to other episodes, but at the end of the day I think the studio simply wasn't going to give them more time
- I didn't care for the Rutherford plotline at all. Every season we get a "Rutherford's implant is causing problems" plot, typically at or near the finale. It's overstayed its welcome quite a bit. He also starts off uncharacteristically angry for most of the episode, then completely swings around right at the end. I think they should've had him "fall out of love" with the Cerritos slowly over the season, then resolved it here. I do like him removing the implant though, I think it's a nice end to his arc, even if it feels a bit random here (why did you do that like two seasons ago?)
- Having a stable metaverse rift opens a whole can of worms that LD has just kinda dumped onto the franchise, I'm not sure how I feel about it. If I didn't know better, it feels like a backdoor pilot for a Starbase 80 show that we'll never get.
- The Klingons were a good choice for a villain, but they kinda overstayed their welcome. Just shoot her, she's already firing on you
That was an almost perfect end to the season, and the series. Considering much of the beginning of the season made me think Mike & co were out of gas in the writer's room, and this upset the status quo enough to make me really want to see a season 6, mission accomplished. I wonder if, similar to Disco, they were given time to add additional material to help wrap up the series more neatly at the end. Because this works as a hopeful conclusion, setting up the possibility of further adventures or a spin-off series.
The first kudos have to do with weaving together almost the entirety of Season 5 by the end. It's not a surprise it's a direct follow-up to the previous episode, and that the rift plot is dealt with. We also knew from advance photos that Ma'ah and his brother were going to be here. But they also worked in Ensign Olly and Starbase 80, meaning over half the season at least related tangentially to the finale. I think making the series closer focus on the ship's crew and some recurring characters was the right call, rather than adding more gratuitous legacy Trek cameos (though we do see the Anaximander's crew made it through to this reality by the end).
I like that compared to the previous episode, the effects of the different realities were more muted here. Having the one Klingon vessel shift into a Disco-era one was a nice Easter egg for those who insist it's not canon. Otherwise we mostly just get a tour of different Starfleet-class ships.
The humor is very subdued here, as befits the high stakes of the episode and high level of action. Honestly this is a pretty classic Trek format which could have been on TNG with only a few tweaks.
But the episode is not perfect. First, the sister of the Klingon brothers that Ma'ah killed is an idiot. Admittedly, she's a secondary antagonist here - the anomaly is the real issue - so I don't ding the episode much for this. The shoehorned mini-arcs for Tendi and Rutherford, though, I think were pretty bad. Tendi's conflict with T'Lyn was telegraphed earlier in the season (Fully Dilated), but it was presented as resolved there, so it comes out of left field here. Not as much as Rutherford, who starts the episode suddenly veering into angry for no reason, then resolves a huge, heretofore unknown, personal conflict by the episode's end. I love where he ended up, but they treated him as a non-entity through the entirety of the season. One wonders if they planned for him to have this arc for Season 6, and then had to speedrun it here so they did something with him.
Boimler works out much, much better, having resolved his silly "PADD arc" through the course of the episode. Mariner didn't really have that much of an arc this season, but seeing her (largely) act as the voice of reason here is refreshing, and shows how much she grew over the course of the season.
We end on an intriguing note, with the status quo upset in many ways. Freeman is off the ship, with Ransom now captain. Mariner and Boimler are both "provisional first officers" - leading to potential conflict. Rutherford has removed his implant and seems to be finally coming to terms with his romantic feelings for Tendi. Starbase 80 and the Anaximander are right there in case they want to do an animated show covering alternate realities instead. There's so many new story possibilities. I wish the show had felt comfortable upsetting the status quo earlier, because something similar would have made Season 5 as a whole much, much more enjoyable. Instead we got mostly mediocrity, with the season only really finding itself in the back half.
The first kudos have to do with weaving together almost the entirety of Season 5 by the end. It's not a surprise it's a direct follow-up to the previous episode, and that the rift plot is dealt with. We also knew from advance photos that Ma'ah and his brother were going to be here. But they also worked in Ensign Olly and Starbase 80, meaning over half the season at least related tangentially to the finale. I think making the series closer focus on the ship's crew and some recurring characters was the right call, rather than adding more gratuitous legacy Trek cameos (though we do see the Anaximander's crew made it through to this reality by the end).
I like that compared to the previous episode, the effects of the different realities were more muted here. Having the one Klingon vessel shift into a Disco-era one was a nice Easter egg for those who insist it's not canon. Otherwise we mostly just get a tour of different Starfleet-class ships.
The humor is very subdued here, as befits the high stakes of the episode and high level of action. Honestly this is a pretty classic Trek format which could have been on TNG with only a few tweaks.
But the episode is not perfect. First, the sister of the Klingon brothers that Ma'ah killed is an idiot. Admittedly, she's a secondary antagonist here - the anomaly is the real issue - so I don't ding the episode much for this. The shoehorned mini-arcs for Tendi and Rutherford, though, I think were pretty bad. Tendi's conflict with T'Lyn was telegraphed earlier in the season (Fully Dilated), but it was presented as resolved there, so it comes out of left field here. Not as much as Rutherford, who starts the episode suddenly veering into angry for no reason, then resolves a huge, heretofore unknown, personal conflict by the episode's end. I love where he ended up, but they treated him as a non-entity through the entirety of the season. One wonders if they planned for him to have this arc for Season 6, and then had to speedrun it here so they did something with him.
Boimler works out much, much better, having resolved his silly "PADD arc" through the course of the episode. Mariner didn't really have that much of an arc this season, but seeing her (largely) act as the voice of reason here is refreshing, and shows how much she grew over the course of the season.
We end on an intriguing note, with the status quo upset in many ways. Freeman is off the ship, with Ransom now captain. Mariner and Boimler are both "provisional first officers" - leading to potential conflict. Rutherford has removed his implant and seems to be finally coming to terms with his romantic feelings for Tendi. Starbase 80 and the Anaximander are right there in case they want to do an animated show covering alternate realities instead. There's so many new story possibilities. I wish the show had felt comfortable upsetting the status quo earlier, because something similar would have made Season 5 as a whole much, much more enjoyable. Instead we got mostly mediocrity, with the season only really finding itself in the back half.
Starfleet Headquarters did seem to have an Enterprises from alt-universes display in 2399. Apparently the Discoverse version of the Enterprise-D is almost identical, save for shuttlebays 2 and 3 being the same size.A solid sendoff with a good setup for a revival/spinoff. So I guess Starfleet has had access to an alternate reality portal through the entirely of Picard, Prodigy, and the last three seasons of Discovery but it just never came up. Gotta love shared continuity programming made by multiple creative teams.
Who knows how long the portal was actually open for? In theory Spock could have gone into stasis in the Kelvinverse, waiting for the portal to be established and then have a way back home.
Did anyone else mishear the female Klingon’s name as Grilka from Deep Space Nine?
Enjoyed it. Went with a 9. Sad it is over. Loved Mariner's speech, Rutherford getting rid of his implant and falling in love with the sholio again, and Engage the Core!
Not quite All Good Things level great for a finale, but certainly hard to think of a clearly better one (PIC, PRO, DS9?), especially an unplanned one.
Not quite All Good Things level great for a finale, but certainly hard to think of a clearly better one (PIC, PRO, DS9?), especially an unplanned one.
Nope. The Strange New Worlds crossover already proved they're the same universe.
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What an awesome ending. 
Very heartwarming in places, but hilarious too.
I enjoyed how ll the characters all got their time to shine.
|It seemed like S5 took a while to get going, but when it did, it really did.
Engage the warp!
Very heartwarming in places, but hilarious too.I enjoyed how ll the characters all got their time to shine.
|It seemed like S5 took a while to get going, but when it did, it really did.
Engage the warp!
OK...
How many relatives does that one p'tech have? Ma'ah literally at the center of a dynastic web here by kicking off ONE murder. Some mighty fine piloting by him as well as mel'or though. A simple freight hauler outrunning a battle group of birds of prey? Those crews should feel shame for failing at such a simple task!
Way to go Ollie! Wha'd you do mainline the f'ing warp core? Siphon power from the rift? Lookin good as a gold shirt.
Also... HUH. SB80's old enough that it actually has become relevant by literally being too dumb to know there should be a problem. So how's that going to work. Kassie being in charge of station operations and Carol in charge of the expeditionary fleet?
Was kinda hoping we'd get a resolution to the red pad, but it being relevant was good in driving the plot forward.
Rutheford's ... uh... C plot? Yea let's go with C plot, it felt forced to me. that is the reason this doesn't get a 10. Just... I kinda get where they were going but... Meh.
I like the joke that 'oh hey you got the mirrorverse veriant.... and the weapons are down. Shax got to see his second favorite thing to ejecting the warp core.... and then got it snatched away. Eaglemoss! I want that model. Now!
Kinda glad that Boims and Mariner haven't gotten a rank promotion just yet, but that they're on track for it.
'Engage the Core' ....It's so bad it's honestly kinda amazing.
How many relatives does that one p'tech have? Ma'ah literally at the center of a dynastic web here by kicking off ONE murder. Some mighty fine piloting by him as well as mel'or though. A simple freight hauler outrunning a battle group of birds of prey? Those crews should feel shame for failing at such a simple task!
Way to go Ollie! Wha'd you do mainline the f'ing warp core? Siphon power from the rift? Lookin good as a gold shirt.
Also... HUH. SB80's old enough that it actually has become relevant by literally being too dumb to know there should be a problem. So how's that going to work. Kassie being in charge of station operations and Carol in charge of the expeditionary fleet?
Was kinda hoping we'd get a resolution to the red pad, but it being relevant was good in driving the plot forward.
Rutheford's ... uh... C plot? Yea let's go with C plot, it felt forced to me. that is the reason this doesn't get a 10. Just... I kinda get where they were going but... Meh.
I like the joke that 'oh hey you got the mirrorverse veriant.... and the weapons are down. Shax got to see his second favorite thing to ejecting the warp core.... and then got it snatched away. Eaglemoss! I want that model. Now!
Kinda glad that Boims and Mariner haven't gotten a rank promotion just yet, but that they're on track for it.
'Engage the Core' ....It's so bad it's honestly kinda amazing.
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