Ocampa (Kes) ideas

[Akiraprise]

@BohandiAnsoid just a heads up we generally prefer if people do not double or triple post in a row in a thread. Thanks!

 

[Guy Gardener]

No shit.

If it takes two to reproduce, and the female of the species can only get pregnant once, and multiple births (not just twins, or triplets, but veritable litters) aren't the norm, then the species would die out very quickly.

On the other hand, Kes was portrayed as shockingly intelligent, with the emotional maturity of a twenty-something, so an advanced culture is not impossible. And we don't know how long an Ocampan year is, anyway. And there were some hints that what happened naturally to 9-year-old Ocampa was something other than death. Sort of the same way we found out that the Kelpien Vahar'ai isn't the onset of senility, but of adulthood.

What if the population was 5 percent male?

Some lawyer brain figured out that they can have a second baby if they have a first. Not having their first baby when their body says "now is the moment bud!" is what disqualifies their body from delivering multiple bubs. Maybe their body resents the woman's lack of proclivity, or maybe not having a baby causes some degree of damage which make future pregnancies impossible, who knows.

When the Caretaker took away the rain, he may have screwed up their biology.

The Caretaker's people may have staggered (genetically engineered) a culling, so that the Ocampa extinction was orderly, their birth rate halving the population every generation, rather than 4 billion elves with bad haircuts killing each other for the last glass of water.

 

[Lynx]

No shit.

If it takes two to reproduce, and the female of the species can only get pregnant once, and multiple births (not just twins, or triplets, but veritable litters) aren't the norm, then the species would die out very quickly.

On the other hand, Kes was portrayed as shockingly intelligent, with the emotional maturity of a twenty-something, so an advanced culture is not impossible. And we don't know how long an Ocampan year is, anyway. And there were some hints that what happened naturally to 9-year-old Ocampa was something other than death. Sort of the same way we found out that the Kelpien Vahar'ai isn't the onset of senility, but of adulthood.

There is actually a scene in the episode Before And After where a young Kes is talking to her father which hints the possibility of Ocampa being able to have more that one child.

YOUNG KES: You're my father.
BENAREN: That's right, and you're my favourite daughter, but don't tell anyone.

If Kes was Benaren's "favorite daughter", then it would be possible that Kes had siblings.
Jes, Tes and Kes?

As for the Ocampa year, I have a theory about the Ocampa planet having a 10 year orbit around the sun.

Even if the planet was the fifth planet, the Ocampa sun may be a star bigger than Earth and it could take about 10 years to circle around it.

My current working theory is that something happened to the Ocampa that made them this way. That how they are now is not a product of natural evolution. And, of course l, that they actually have many children from Elogium, just maybe those with special gifts (like Kes) have only one child. Would also explain why there is not too many of them.

Anyway, I think I would share a bit of my fanfiction I am writing right now. It contains a bit of "Kes wisdom" of looking at things from a different perspective (thanks Lynx for pointing that out).

The Caretaker may have affected them in some way.
As for your fanfic, The example of "Kes's wisdom" in it is exactly what I mean when i write or talk about Kes's personality and how she used her wit and ability to look at things from another angle.

Yes, I don't have "edit" button now. It surprised me.

I think Kes recovered rather quickly from her enslavement by the Kazon. Then again, she is Kes, and she is surprisingly strong and enduring. She didn't even hold a grudge against the Kazon (not that she interacted much with them afterward).

Yes, she did.

Coming on board Voyager changed gher life. She already had a will to learn and explore and when she joined the Voyager crew, she found a new life where she could do just that together with nice people who she took a liking to. It wouldn't surprise me if it was Kes who persuaded Neelix that they should join the Voyager crew in Caretaler.

For Neelix the situation became a bit different. While Kes found a lot of new friends and a purpose for her life, Neelix started to find himself useless among all those well-educated and professional people on board Voyager, therefore his whims about being guide, chef, Morale Officer, journalist, Ambassador or whatever he was or imagined. The relationship with Kes started to crumble when they started to drift apart and the process was speeded up by Neelix's jealousy.

No offense to Neelix, I actually like him and deep down he's a nice and friendly type. But he and Kes started to drift apart as soon as they joined the Voyager crew.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

I just realized that the Ocampa can be like Guinea Pigs (I have some of them). For Guinea Pigs, unless they have children before being 1 year old (which is when they stop growing up), something happens with their reproduction system and they cannot give natural births anymore.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Sorry for double post, but I cannot edit it and I hurried up too much.

What if the population was 5 percent male?

Some lawyer brain figured out that they can have a second baby if they have a first. Not having their first baby when their body says "now is the moment bud!" is what disqualifies their body from delivering multiple bubs. Maybe their body resents the woman's lack of proclivity, or maybe not having a baby causes some degree of damage which make future pregnancies impossible, who knows.

When the Caretaker took away the rain, he may have screwed up their biology.

The Caretaker's people may have staggered (genetically engineered) a culling, so that the Ocampa extinction was orderly, their birth rate halving the population every generation, rather than 4 billion elves with bad haircuts killing each other for the last glass of water.

Possible. As I said, Guinea Pigs have something like that. It doesn't stop them from being pregnant, but they require human assistance in birth later if that happens.


Anyway, I think it would be nice to see Kes and one of these animals together. Although it might be too cute.

There is actually a scene in the episode Before And After where a young Kes is talking to her father which hints the possibility of Ocampa being able to have more that one child.

YOUNG KES: You're my father.
BENAREN: That's right, and you're my favourite daughter, but don't tell anyone.

If Kes was Benaren's "favorite daughter", then it would be possible that Kes had siblings.
Jes, Tes and Kes?

Thanks, Lynx. This is exactly kind of things I am looking for. Good names, although I would think they should be more diverse. Well, maybe that's a family thing. Or their mother named them that way. That is to be determined.

Even if the planet was the fifth planet, the Ocampa sun may be a star bigger than Earth and it could take about 10 years to circle around it.

Thanks for this. Another useful thing. I will see if it is possible to mod this system into some Galactic Civilizations games.

The Caretaker may have affected them in some way.
As for your fanfic, The example of "Kes's wisdom" in it is exactly what I mean when i write or talk about Kes's personality and how she used her wit and ability to look at things from another angle.

Thanks, Lynx. I may share more in the future.

Yes, she did.

Coming on board Voyager changed gher life. She already had a will to learn and explore and when she joined the Voyager crew, she found a new life where she could do just that together with nice people who she took a liking to. It wouldn't surprise me if it was Kes who persuaded Neelix that they should join the Voyager crew in Caretaler.

For Neelix the situation became a bit different. While Kes found a lot of new friends and a purpose for her life, Neelix started to find himself useless among all those well-educated and professional people on board Voyager, therefore his whims about being guide, chef, Morale Officer, journalist, Ambassador or whatever he was or imagined. The relationship with Kes started to crumble when they started to drift apart and the process was speeded up by Neelix's jealousy.

No offense to Neelix, I actually like him and deep down he's a nice and friendly type. But he and Kes started to drift apart as soon as they joined the Voyager crew.

I understand all of it.

Don't get me wrong, I have no malice, no hate against Neelix and sometimes he is really good (like Jetrel episode), and it is clear his actions come from trauma and/or genuinely good intentions. But sometimes what he does is absolutely at the limits of acceptable things. He doesn't quite cross the line, but he gets close to it.

 

[Lynx]

Sorry for double post, but I cannot edit it and I hurried up too much.


Possible. As I said, Guinea Pigs have something like that. It doesn't stop them from being pregnant, but they require human assistance in birth later if that happens.


Anyway, I think it would be nice to see Kes and one of these animals together. Although it might be too cute.





Thanks, Lynx. This is exactly kind of things I am looking for. Good names, although I would think they should be more diverse. Well, maybe that's a family thing. Or their mother named them that way. That is to be determined.





Thanks for this. Another useful thing. I will see if it is possible to mod this system into some Galactic Civilizations games.

Thanks, Lynx. I may share more in the future.




I understand all of it.

Don't get me wrong, I have no malice, no hate against Neelix and sometimes he is really good (like Jetrel episode), and it is clear his actions come from trauma and/or genuinely good intentions. But sometimes what he does is absolutely at the limits of acceptable things. He doesn't quite cross the line, but he gets close to it.

Neelix is a weird guy.


But at the same time one of Star Trek's best, at least when it comes to hos background story.

The reason for Neelix's behavior is just because of that. He lost his family in a terrible war where his home world was devastated. After that, he started to drift around in the Delta Quadrant, doing different jobs and business which weren't always legal together withhis friend Wixiban.

He actually was a drug addict for a while (according to the book Pathways by Jeri Taylor). He was hooked on Rhuludian Crystals but was helped to overcome his addiction by Wixiban. The drug use was the result of the pain he felt for losing his family.

When Wixiban was arrested by the Ubeans due to some shady business, neelix went back to the part of the Delta Quadrant where Talax was located. He started to trade with the kazon and met Kes at the Kazon-Ogla camp at Ocampa and fell in love with her.

All that is the result of his weird behavior. He wanted to be happy again and therefore wanted everyone around him to be happy, that's why he always tried to cheer up those he met. he wanted to be useful and therefore came up with all his ideas about being the chef on the ship, the Morale Officer, the guide, the journnalist, Ambassador and all the whims he could come up with.

He was deeply in love with Kes but so afraid to lose her that he became over-jealous and manic which actually resulted in losing her.

Actually a tragic character but likeable in many ways, as I see it.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

I understand. I just don't like such possesivness, even if it is (as much as it is possible) justified.

Anyway, coming back to Ocampa. I noticed howgood this species would be to use as shock troopers (if anycivilization managed to make them do that). They develop quickly, they learn quickly as well, with proper training hey can gain powers very useful on the battlefield... Even Elogium helps with that (assuming normally it results in many children at once), as it leaves many Ocampa that are no longer in the population's reprodictive pool but are otherwise perfectly healthy.

Of course, they are not this right now. Their society is very peaceful. But they might be made this a long time ago.

 

[Lynx]

I understand. I just don't like such possesivness, even if it is (as much as it is possible) justified.

Anyway, coming back to Ocampa. I noticed howgood this species would be to use as shock troopers (if anycivilization managed to make them do that). They develop quickly, they learn quickly as well, with proper training hey can gain powers very useful on the battlefield... Even Elogium helps with that (assuming normally it results in many children at once), as it leaves many Ocampa that are no longer in the population's reprodictive pool but are otherwise perfectly healthy.

Of course, they are not this right now. Their society is very peaceful. But they might be made this a long time ago.

I don't see the Ocampa as possible stormtroopers. They are too peaceful for that. Not even those on Suspiria's array fit the description about stormtroopers.

They should be much better as undercover agents and such.

As for Elogium, I wonder what the writers were on when they came up with that episode. They really managed to turn the Ocampa into a weird species.

Together with Emanations which was plain boring, Elogium is my least favorite episode among the season 1 episodes. Kes is funny when she freaks out and start eatin beetles (not Beatles) but the rest of the episode is.....meh.


Ooops......wrong picture. She's not eating Beatles.

More Voyager references to rock music here:

References to rock music in Voyager episodes and books

For some strange reason, rock music is sadly rejected in Star Trek. Riker likes jazz, Kim plays clarinet and they have different musical events here and there. But no rock music and it's my intention to change that. In fact, I have discovered some hidden references to rock music here and there...

www.trekbbs.com

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Maybe they are a botched attempt at making some. I know they are too peaceful, so something had to go wrong.


Anyway, here's another fragment of my fanfiction. It is what I wrote to replace that "Romeo and Juliet" conversation from ENT: Augments. Kes doesn't appear directly there, but her influence is visible (after all, her presence is the main factor that is different from canon. She is the catalyst for the change).


-Target the directional array on grid four five nine - T’Pol said. - How are your parents?
-They're fine - Trio said. - They moved into a new house in Mississippi. It's not like the old place in Panama City, but it's pretty nice. They really like Kes, through. Why do you ask?
-You haven't spoken of them recently - T’Pol said. - In fact, you've said very little since I returned from Vulcan.
-There hasn't been a lot of time to catch up - Trip said.
-Kes had time - T’Pol said. - She talked with me a lot.
-What are you trying to say? - Trip said.
-You've been avoiding being alone with me - T’Pol said. - In fact, I rarely see you now without her. Without Kes.
-Well, maybe I have - Trip said. But you got to admit, it's a little awkward. I mean, you're married. I know you did it to help your mother, but it's going to take me a little time to adjust. And Kes is helping me go through it. And also helps me to not forget myself.
-What do you mean? - T’Pol said.
-What I mean is, this should never happen - Trip said. - Things like that… happened in the past, but we thought we put them behind. We had every reason to believe that no one would have to suffer like that again. But we were wrong. So wrong.
-So you think there's no hope for us now? - T’Pol said.
-Now - Trip said. - I would, if not for Kes. She explained to me that there is still a chance. And that, as long as there is a chance for us, no matter how small, no matter how improbable, I cannot give up. I cannot surrender. But, as long as you are married to Koss, as long as this marriage is valid anywhere, nothing can happen between us.

 

[Lynx]

Maybe they are a botched attempt at making some. I know they are too peaceful, so something had to go wrong.


Anyway, here's another fragment of my fanfiction. It is what I wrote to replace that "Romeo and Juliet" conversation from ENT: Augments. Kes doesn't appear directly there, but her influence is visible (after all, her presence is the main factor that is different from canon. She is the catalyst for the change).


-Target the directional array on grid four five nine - T’Pol said. - How are your parents?
-They're fine - Trio said. - They moved into a new house in Mississippi. It's not like the old place in Panama City, but it's pretty nice. They really like Kes, through. Why do you ask?
-You haven't spoken of them recently - T’Pol said. - In fact, you've said very little since I returned from Vulcan.
-There hasn't been a lot of time to catch up - Trip said.
-Kes had time - T’Pol said. - She talked with me a lot.
-What are you trying to say? - Trip said.
-You've been avoiding being alone with me - T’Pol said. - In fact, I rarely see you now without her. Without Kes.
-Well, maybe I have - Trip said. But you got to admit, it's a little awkward. I mean, you're married. I know you did it to help your mother, but it's going to take me a little time to adjust. And Kes is helping me go through it. And also helps me to not forget myself.
-What do you mean? - T’Pol said.
-What I mean is, this should never happen - Trip said. - Things like that… happened in the past, but we thought we put them behind. We had every reason to believe that no one would have to suffer like that again. But we were wrong. So wrong.
-So you think there's no hope for us now? - T’Pol said.
-Now - Trip said. - I would, if not for Kes. She explained to me that there is still a chance. And that, as long as there is a chance for us, no matter how small, no matter how improbable, I cannot give up. I cannot surrender. But, as long as you are married to Koss, as long as this marriage is valid anywhere, nothing can happen between us.

Hmmm.............isn't the events in ENT before TOS? How can Kes be around then?

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Time travel. She was relocated there (entire fic, and already published first part of the series, gives a bit more content. It also happened after her lifetime was extended).

The first part is titled "Another Kes". Just search internet for that, using "". I am using the same nickname as on this forum.

 

[Lynx]

Time travel. She was relocated there (entire fic, and already published first part of the series, gives a bit more content. It also happened after her lifetime was extended).

The first part is titled "Another Kes". Just search internet for that, using "". I am using the same nickname as on this forum.

OK, then I know.
I will take a look at your stories.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

"With another Kes" has been completed. Because of that, I will now begin writing backstory for the Ocampa species.

I will soon befgin a new thread for this backstory in the fanfiction section. I will acknowladge there everyone who took part in this discussion, and I will share everything I will write there. If someone would not want their contributions to be there, inform me there and I will revise the text. But, I would like for you to also review and comment on it. This thread will remain here for new ideas, and to continue present discussions.

I will also start a thread in fanfiction forum on "another Kes" and "With another Kes". I will link it all there soon.

if you're going tol read my stories, heed the warning in tags. I really advise to skip the first 5 chapters of "Tandis" and start with Chapter 6... I was pretty angry when I wrote these and they could be offensive to some people... Not to mention they might damage Kes a bit.

Here's a link to the thread for this my fanfiction:

No Fury Kes AU discussion (Voyager+ Enterprise)

During discussion on my Ocampa thread, I shared two pieces of my fanfiction. This fanfiction is about Kes that managed to stabilize her initial evolution, but later temporarily left Voyager anyway. There are two parts right now: "Another Kes", which deals with Voyager and "With another Kes"...

www.trekbbs.com

I will make the thread on the Ocampa backstory soon.

Ocampa backstory threat is here!

BohandiAnsoid's Ocampa backstory

This is a place to discuss, review and possible ask for revisions (but I hope it won't be necessary) on my Ocampa backstory. Original discuss can be found here: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/ocampa-kes-ideas.317578/ I will publish everything I write in this project. You may here: -Asks for...

www.trekbbs.com

 

[Lynx]

"With another Kes" has been completed. Because of that, I will now begin writing backstory for the Ocampa species.

I will soon befgin a new thread for this backstory in the fanfiction section. I will acknowladge there everyone who took part in this discussion, and I will share everything I will write there. If someone would not want their contributions to be there, inform me there and I will revise the text. But, I would like for you to also review and comment on it. This thread will remain here for new ideas, and to continue present discussions.

I will also start a thread in fanfiction forum on "another Kes" and "With another Kes". I will link it all there soon.

if you're going tol read my stories, heed the warning in tags. I really advise to skip the first 5 chapters of "Tandis" and start with Chapter 6... I was pretty angry when I wrote these and they could be offensive to some people... Not to mention they might damage Kes a bit.

Writing when angry may cause some unevented effets.

I wrote my first Kes story Coming Home when I had a conflict with a person so the "bad guy" in the story was based on him. Or to be correct, This person looked like a bad guy in an action comic magazine so the character inn the story became a cross between him and the character in the comic magazine.

However, some years later we managed to solve the problems which had been and became friends again and then I started to feel bad about what I had written. So I changed a few things to make the character in the book a bit different from what he had been and more like the cartoon character in the magazine.

When the person I had had this conflict with died a few years later, I felt bad over the whole thing and planned to scrap the story. But I couldn't do it because I was quite happy with the story itself and since I had removed most of the similarities, I decided to keep it as it was.

There are some other things in that story which could have been done better but I don't want to poke in it, especially not since I've stated that Coming Home is the best Voyager episode never made!

Almost all of my characters are made up by people I've encountered or in some cases inspired by characters from TV-series and movies and slightly altered.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

"Coming Home" is a nice story. From my point of view, bad guys there seems like the Drengin, and this is the first though I had after I read about them. Or Korx, some of them.

As for my story, I was unable to distinguish between a (non - Star Trek) charakter and their most popular pairing (which I feel is Fury - level character destruction for the other person in the pairing, but is supported by at least some producers. But is, at least now, non - canon). It wasn't until I watched some videos of a person who likes the character but not the pairing that I realized my mistake. But chapters had to stay.

Also, could you check out my Backstoryhtread? I already wrote the general overwiev there...

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Can someone give me another idea/comment/fact? Something to start a story from? Because I ran out of ideas, but I don't want to end this project yet.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Revenge of Andrew!

Present day shimmies around the wee boy, and nothing is how it is supposed to be, so Andrew goes back in time to Kill B'Elanna, to make sure his mother is born.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

I'II think about this, but I feel it may be too similar to "that season 6 episode". I would have to make sure it's not. And timeframe is not exactly what I mean. But thanks anyway for any help

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Also, two things:

1. Does anyone have any other idea / food for thoughts on the Ocampa that could help me write another story?

2. Is it all right for you that I don't stick to the original plan and write about things after Voyager?

 

[Lynx]

I'II think about this, but I feel it may be too similar to "that season 6 episode". I would have to make sure it's not. And timeframe is not exactly what I mean. But thanks anyway for any help

I agree.

And you have to remember that the events in Before And After never happened, at least not in Our Universe or should I call it the main Star Trek Universe.

Maybe in an alternate universe but that's another question.