Spoilers The Strange New Worlds Starship Thread™

[Dukhat]

No, they wanted tp make sure it was different enough from the Franz Joseph single nacelle Federation Scout and Destroyer designs in the STAR TREK Technical Manual - which Paramount gave Franz Joseph full copyright over meaning IF they used one of the design verbatim, they'd have to pay his Estate royalties, or face a possible lawsuit.

I’m aware of the FJ stuff. But I’m pretty sure that making the pylon without the gap wouldn’t have been problematic. Other than the general shape, the Archer looks nothing like the scout/destroyer. That’s like saying that the producers of TNG would get in trouble because the future Enterprise-D from AGT has three nacelles like the Federation class.

And didn’t Doug Drexler make artwork of the Ptolemy class tugs in one of the SOTL calendars?

 

[HotRod]

I wonder how that went when they had a couple of mini FJ Federation-class dreadnaughts at Guinean’s bar in Pic S2. On that day, they became fully canon.

Nah, those were just silly toys based on a silly design from an old kids holodeck program set in the 23rd century. The series saw a resurgence in popularity in the late 2390's, hence it's presence in bar.

*I genuinely hate the design and until I actually see one floating in space, I'll refuse to accept its inclusion in canon.

**I'm also genuinely sure I'm destined to lose this particular battle.

 

[David cgc]

I suppose they could always show a movie-era refit of the Federation... Or, you know, make a deal for the rights.

 

[Dukhat]

I suppose they could always show a movie-era refit of the Federation...

That would be cool. But probably unlikely.

Or, you know, make a deal for the rights.

Unless they’re planning on using the FJ designs in some capacity, I’m not sure why they would do that.

 

[fireproof78]

Nah, those were just silly toys based on a silly design from an old kids holodeck program set in the 23rd century. The series saw a resurgence in popularity in the late 2390's, hence it's presence in bar.

*I genuinely hate the design and until I actually see one floating in space, I'll refuse to accept its inclusion in canon.

**I'm also genuinely sure I'm destined to lose this particular battle.

Some of those model kits were based off some concept Starfleet designs.

 

[HotRod]

Some of those model kits were based off some concept Starfleet designs.

Hopefully, like most concept cars, they never saw the light of day.

 

[fireproof78]

Hopefully, like most concept cars, they never saw the light of day.

My grandfather helped work on the technical manual for the F117 and B2 aircraft and collected several stealth fighter models as a fun inside joke of what people pictured the craft would look like vs. what it did.

 

[Markonian]

Would CBS/Paramount get away with creating a "Confederation class" that has the third nacelle, deflectors + shuttlebays in front and aft, etc. by using the Discoprise parts?

 

[Tomalak]

Would CBS/Paramount get away with creating a "Confederation class" that has the third nacelle, deflectors + shuttlebays in front and aft, etc. by using the Discoprise parts?

As long as it was 25% different.

 

[Dukhat]

Would CBS/Paramount get away with creating a "Confederation class" that has the third nacelle, deflectors + shuttlebays in front and aft, etc. by using the Discoprise parts?

Boris Vallejo got away with painting his own take on the FJ dreadnought for a novel cover (although I don’t remember if that was before Gene’s temper tantrum or after.) From what I understand, as long as it’s not the actual FJ design, anyone can make a ship with three nacelles (even in the same configuration) and they wouldn’t have to pay royalties to FJ’s estate. Naming it ‘Confederation’ class might be going a bit too far, though.

 

[137th Gebirg]

IIRC, he also did an odd variation of Battlestar Galactica for something back in the day. Tangentially recognizable, but a metric ass-ton more than 25% different.

 

[HotRod]

Boris Vallejo got away with painting his own take on the FJ dreadnought for a novel cover

That'd be this thing for the novel "Dreadnought!" by Diane Carey.

 

[Dukhat]

IIRC, he also did an odd variation of Battlestar Galactica for something back in the day. Tangentially recognizable, but a metric ass-ton more than 25% different.

You’re thinking of Frank Frazetta, not Boris Vallejo. While Frazetta’s artwork got the actors’ faces correct, their uniforms and ships looked wildly different, like he saw the ships once and just drew them from memory, or intentionally made them more ‘stylistic.’

As far as Vallejo’s Trek art is concerned, he was night-and-day better than the photoshopped crap they use for Trek novel covers these days.

 

[137th Gebirg]

That’s right… I stand corrected.

 

[137th Gebirg]

That'd be this thing for the novel "Dreadnought!" by Diane Carey.

Someone actually once took a stab at making some orthos for that design. A noble effort…. The very un-Starfleet sounding USS Star Empire!

 

[HotRod]

Someone actually once took a stab at making some orthos for that design. A noble effort…. The very un-Starfleet sounding USS Star Empire!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Someone actually once took a stab at making some orthos for that design. A noble effort…. The very un-Starfleet sounding USS Star Empire!

Pretty sure I read that. Sarda and Piper are looking pretty Bondian. MA says Carey was the model for Piper on that cover. Next level "Mary Sue".

 

[JoseNoodles]

Didn't they have a model of the FJ Dreadnought in Picard, unchanged from it's appearance in Franz Joseph's book?

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yes. It was apparently disavowed by the showrunners to avoid legal issues with the FJ estate. See upthread starting on the previous page for details

 

[Macintosh]

The only thing I don’t like about the Archer is the absolutely unnecessary gap in the nacelle pylon. It’s like somebody wanted to emulate the Cerritos (whose gaps also don’t make much sense.)

I entirely blame John Eaves for this nonsensical obsession modern Trek has with negative spaces in starship design. Everything he designs looks increasingly like a giant warp-capable bottle opener.

Going by the concept art, it's one deck. I'm pretty sure they meant for it to be the Archer-class from the Vanguard novels size-wise, but whoever did the CG model went with the Saladin-class as design inspiration.

But that's just my guess.

Ooh, that would have been a fantastic thing to canonise. I've long felt that the runabout concept as a "mini-starship" was a great one, but DS9's execution of them as just "fat shuttles" was a bad idea. I love the Archer-class as a tiny but capable mini-starship.

No, they wanted tp make sure it was different enough from the Franz Joseph single nacelle Federation Scout and Destroyer designs in the STAR TREK Technical Manual - which Paramount gave Franz Joseph full copyright over meaning IF they used one of the design verbatim, they'd have to pay his Estate royalties, or face a possible lawsuit.

Easily fixed – make the nacelle pylon go up instead of down. Or, as F. King Daniel says, use an actual original design when there's plenty available that would have filled that niche perfectly.