Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x08 - "Labyrinths"

[IMC Headquarters]

Is Moll short for Molly O'Brien?

Mollusc. She's got a hard shell protecting a soft center.

 

[Jag2112]

Screencaps gallery now online:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sc-DSC5-8.php

 

[JRob94]

No.

Shaw was a terrible human being. He almost left a young man to die for the most selfish of reasons.

Shaw exercised his power over a subordinate to degrade and insult.

Shaw interrupted a personal moment in the Holodeck to vent at characters who mostly dealt with a phase of their psychological issues, while he himself was in desperate need of psychological rest leave.

As written, he was an asshole, but not in a fun way, in a scummy way.

Please don't begin to compare him to Jellico or Rayner, they're not the same.

I agree with this wholeheartedly! I actually really like Jellico, obviously his methods are different to those of Picard, but that doesn’t make him a bad captain or character. I’m actually a big fan of his command style

Shaw is just a rude, surly man who is disrespectful to both subordinates and superiors.

 

[1001001]

Pretty good.

+1 for "Gelatinous Assholes".

8

 

[Mage]

So a decent episode, nothing groundbreaking but with some good moments.
If Kweijan is restored at the end of the season, it does feel like a cope-out. Same would go for L'Ak.

Mol suddenly being the Queen of Dragons so to say.... I didn't see that coming. As in, I didn't think the writers would go for such a cheap and useless angle. I wonder who that Breen was she kept having glances with.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Regarding DISCO having a low number of new aliens...

I have to agree, it's a smaller amount than previous shows. Even if you go by episode number than season number, which I think is a more fair comparison since DISCO seasons are about half the amount of the legacy shows.

"Labyrinths" is the 63rd episode of DISCO. The other series' 63rd episodes (by production order) are...


TOS: "IS THERE IN TRUTH NO BEAUTY?"
TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise"
DS9: "VISIONARY"
VOY: "BEFORE AND AFTER"
ENT: "CARPENTER STREET"

By this point of each series, here are the recurring aliens...

TOS had... Orions, Romulans, Klingons, and Andorians. (I don't count others like Tellarites and Medusans because it isn't until later in the series or in other shows that they appear again.)

TNG had... Q, Betazoids, Ferengi, Benzites, and Bolians.

DS9 had... Changelings, Lurians, Hupyrians, Boslic, Vorta, Jem'Hadar, and a myriad of background aliens.

Using VOY as a comparison may not really be fair, since a vast majority of aliens they meet would be one-offs because of the nature of the series. Even still, VOY had more new recurring (two episodes or more) aliens than DISCO: Talaxians, Ocampa, Nacene, Kazon, and Vidiians. (I don't count the Krenim from "BEFORE AND AFTER" because at this point, we only saw their ships.)

ENT had 9 recurring... Denobulans, Suliban, Tandarans, Kreetasans, and Xindi. (I'm counting all 5 types of Xindi as separate, since they were each different.)


By the 63rd episode of each of the previous shows, they had already equalled or surpassed DISCO on just recurring aliens. Most certainly a great deal more one-offs appeared. Which is rather baffling, considering it's taking more time to shoot each episode and more money is spent on DISCO episodes than in the previous ones.

Is is a competition?
The episodic nature of the other shows allows for more species to be introduced and reoccur. DISCO's arc based seasons leads to less species. I think Ripper's species "the Space Targdigrade" and the jahSepp ("May Ahern's" species) count as new aliens. The Ba'ul should also count.

 

[Nyotarules]

For a 32nd century ship, Discovery has too many humans on it. Maybe they wanted to keep the makeup budget low

 

[Nerys Myk]

For a 32nd century ship, Discovery has too many humans on it. Maybe they wanted to keep the makeup budget low

Sadly budget will always prevent a true cross-Federation crew. I did notice one of the new crew (Asha) is a Bajoran. Brings to mind all of the aliens scatter through the crowd we see in TMP during Kirk's mission briefing. Though most disappear once the "action" starts.

 

[Macintosh]

For a 32nd century ship, Discovery has too many humans on it. Maybe they wanted to keep the makeup budget low

That's been pretty much true of all Star Trek since TNG. Even Lower Decks seems very human-heavy and they don't have to worry about being limited to humanoid actors.

In-universe, it's probable that the Discovery crew want to stick together, and they are probably not well suited to most 32nd century starship operations.

 

[Farscape One]

Is is a competition?
The episodic nature of the other shows allows for more species to be introduced and reoccur. DISCO's arc based seasons leads to less species. I think Ripper's species "the Space Targdigrade" and the jahSepp ("May Ahern's" species) count as new aliens. The Ba'ul should also count.

Not saying it's a competition, I was just thinking about this because it was mentioned.

And DS9 was more arc based than episodic, yet had more new aliens than DISCO. So I still think there is merit to the point.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

That's been pretty much true of all Star Trek since TNG. Even Lower Decks seems very human-heavy and they don't have to worry about being limited to humanoid actors.

In-universe, it's probable that the Discovery crew want to stick together, and they are probably not well suited to most 32nd century starship operations.

Ya 3 of the 4 main characters are human.
The rest of the characters are understandably less human. Only 2 of the bridge crew and the same 2 + Billips (maybe as I'm not sure are they aliens or culturally different humans like the Bringlodi) on the senior staff.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not saying it's a competition, I was just thinking about this because it was mentioned.

And DS9 was more arc based than episodic, yet had more new aliens than DISCO. So I still think there is merit to the point.

Most were driven by the plots though. Species from the Gamma Quadrant. like the Vorta, Changelings and Jem'Hadar. Some were done and one for a single episode. And lets face it, there were a lot of Klingon, Bajoran and Cardassian stories.

 

[Farscape One]

Most were driven by the plots though. Species from the Gamma Quadrant. like the Vorta, Changelings and Jem'Hadar. Some were done and one for a single episode. And lets face it, there were a lot of Klingon, Bajoran and Cardassian stories.

DS9 still managed to create more new aliens, whether it's because of the plot or not.

And by the way, a lot of new aliens were background ones. DISCO could have done that, too. Especially in the 32nd century when the Federation once had double the amount of members as DS9 era did. Most probably didn't stick around, but that doesn't mean some could have been new to us. As much as I love Rayner being a Kellerun and love the nod to DS9, he could have been an entirely new species.

So my point still stands. (And I think I'm being more than fair by going only up to the episode total for the previous shows instead of their full or even just at their 5 year point. If I did that, the total of new races jumps up quite a bit.)

 

[Nerys Myk]

DS9 still managed to create more new aliens, whether it's because of the plot or not.

And by the way, a lot of new aliens were background ones. DISCO could have done that, too. Especially in the 32nd century when the Federation once had double the amount of members as DS9 era did. Most probably didn't stick around, but that doesn't mean some could have been new to us. As much as I love Rayner being a Kellerun and love the nod to DS9, he could have been an entirely new species.

So my point still stands. (And I think I'm being more than fair by going only up to the episode total for the previous shows instead of their full or even just at their 5 year point. If I did that, the total of new races jumps up quite a bit.)

I just feel it's apples and oranges. Even with its arcs DS9 is very episodic, so again more opportunity. On the background front looking at MA I see four species ID as being Starfleet/UFP
Schlerm
Osnullus
Hornish
Akoszonam
There is also the Alshain (Butterfly People)
From the Multilateral DMA Strategy Assembly we have
Ckaptir
Sarrotheyns

 

[Photoman15]

Regarding DISCO having a low number of new aliens...

I have to agree, it's a smaller amount than previous shows. Even if you go by episode number than season number, which I think is a more fair comparison since DISCO seasons are about half the amount of the legacy shows.

...

TOS had... Orions, Romulans, Klingons, and Andorians. (I don't count others like Tellarites and Medusans because it isn't until later in the series or in other shows that they appear again.)

TNG had... Q, Betazoids, Ferengi, Benzites, and Bolians.

DS9 had... Changelings, Lurians, Hupyrians, Boslic, Vorta, Jem'Hadar, and a myriad of background aliens.

Using VOY as a comparison may not really be fair, since a vast majority of aliens they meet would be one-offs because of the nature of the series. Even still, VOY had more new recurring (two episodes or more) aliens than DISCO: Talaxians, Ocampa, Nacene, Kazon, and Vidiians. (I don't count the Krenim from "BEFORE AND AFTER" because at this point, we only saw their ships.)

ENT had 9 recurring... Denobulans, Suliban, Tandarans, Kreetasans, and Xindi. (I'm counting all 5 types of Xindi as separate, since they were each different.)


By the 63rd episode of each of the previous shows, they had already equalled or surpassed DISCO on just recurring aliens. Most certainly a great deal more one-offs appeared. Which is rather baffling, considering it's taking more time to shoot each episode and more money is spent on DISCO episodes than in the previous ones.

Of course there'd be less new aliens on Discovery. It's 900 years later and we've discovered most of the ones around PLUS the Federation is not as big as it was and their ships are not (currently) seeking out new life and new civilizations. They're recovering from the "Burn" and to some extent the 10C(c).

 

[Nerys Myk]

Of course there'd be less new aliens on Discovery. It's 900 years later and we've discovered most of the ones around PLUS the Federation is not as big as it was and their ships are not (currently) seeking out new life and new civilizations. They're recovering from the "Burn" and to some extent the 10C(c).

"New" in this context means aliens we the audience haven't seen.

 

[The Wormhole]

In-universe, it's probable that the Discovery crew want to stick together, and they are probably not well suited to most 32nd century starship operations.

But there have been plenty of crew transfers. As of S5 we know Bryce and Nilsson have transferred off, and there are several new officers seen throughout the ship. Which include a Ferengi, Lurian and Bajoran, making it pretty damn obvious they weren't serving on the ship in the 23rd century.

 

[Fateor]

Sadly budget will always prevent a true cross-Federation crew. I did notice one of the new crew (Asha) is a Bajoran. Brings to mind all of the aliens scatter through the crowd we see in TMP during Kirk's mission briefing. Though most disappear once the "action" starts.

Someone should have told that to Deep Space Nine's production team.

Because they had a constant string of Alien extra's in the backgrounds of their episodes.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

DS9 also had 26 episodes per season compared to Discovery getting 10-13 so DS9 had an opportunity to do more diverse/new aliens.

Oh and guess who is trashing Discovery on X/Twitter? Initials: RMB

 

[Nerys Myk]

Someone should have told that to Deep Space Nine's production team.

Because they had a constant string of Alien extra's in the backgrounds of their episodes.

Thank god they didn't. DS9 is the exception (as it is for many things Trek), with nearly half the regulars being aliens (Odo, Quark. Kira, Dax and later Worf). And if any show should do a "Star Wars Cantina" riff it's DS9.