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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x08 - "Labyrinths"

Rate the episode...


  • Total voters
    102
It was cool to see the Badlands again, it would have been fun to have the ship thrown into the Delta Quadrant, even if the spore drive would negate the problem. ;)

I enjoyed the scenes with Burnham solving the clue with 'Book,' even if I've had a hard time staying interested in Moll's shenanigans this season. The high point was last week, but L'ak died as he was becoming interesting. :shrug:

I'm missing Saru from the season so much. This show has such a confusing way of using the main cast. See Tilly last season in particular. It hurts me more because he's always been my favourite.
It’s like they refuse to give any other characters anything interesting throughout. Everything has to be about Burnham.
 
When they did this on Babylon 5, Jack the Ripper beat D'Lenn with a taser.

I thought the point of the point of the Academy Psyche Test, is that they only let perfect people with zero psychological issues be 19 year old Star Fleet Ensigns?
 
That's not even a work around, the fact that Amanda worded her comment as she did means that, at some point, Spock and Sarek did interact professionally.
I think it was probably something like this:
Spock: *phones home*
Sarek: hello?
Spock: hello father
Sarek: hello son
Spock: *silence*
Sarek: *silence*
Spock: so... the half crew was turned to vegetables last week
Sarek: fascinating...
Spock: *silence*
Sarek: so... should I put your mother on the phone?
Spock: yes please....
 
I did some research on the library. I figured it would be a location near to where they shoot the series. I discovered the location - it is the Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library, a library with the University of Toronto.

Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library (utoronto.ca)

Starfleet does let people in with psychological issues, see Reginald Barclay. Starfleet is probably looking for severe psychological issues, which might pose a danger to crew and spacecraft.
 
So the spore drive only shaves six hours off of the travel time? Small galaxy.

That's only because the destination happened to be 6 hours away at normal warp. If the destination had been 30 hours away at normal warp, the spore drive would have shaved 30 hours off. Remember normal warp takes a finite amount of time proportional to distance whereas the spore drive is near instantaneous independent of the distance.

Of course, the real reason the destination was only 6 hours at normal warp is to serve the plot. The story requires that the Breen be able to catch up to Discovery in time for the big finale so the destination had to be within reasonable warp travel time. So, yes, small galaxy indeed.
 
An episode with huge stakes, lead character introspection, massive starships and scifi concepts. How does Discovery keep doing this? Excellent episode.

I recall a quote from early on in TNG from Gene or one of the producers, that these moments of ethical decision are central to Star Trek, and Burnham has a huge one here. Of course, she has to save the civilians in immediate harm but at what cost? Is this actually a violation of the Red Directive? Will Kovich say she should have kept the clues out of the Primarch's reach? Interesting.

The Primarch never really cared about L'ak but the episode showed us the Breen have an attachment to their former leader, and therefore the Scion. In fact, they seem to think he has a more valid claim since they decide to go along with Moll's idea. Moll seems to land on her feet every time.

Burnham's labyrinth journey was both tense and revealing. Going deep is hard for Trekkies I know, but this episode goes there. The only puzzle to solve was herself.

This episode conveyed all these ideas with visual aplomb. Possibly the 2nd best-looking episode of the season. The Breen feel like a real threat, take that Picard season 3!:biggrin:

My main question is will we see Burnham interact with ancient Progenitor tech in the finale? Is that how she'll skirt around the Breen threat?

9 out of 10 for the episode with everything.
 
Back to be being boring. I mean this one was really bad. You got a interesting concept with the library but it's just backdrop to once again for the 500th time to key to solving the problem is Burnham getting in touch of with her feelings and then when she does it's treated as this remarkable thing. Because of course no other person has ever comes to terms that they might have trauma or flaws within themselves.

The Breen have been turned into bad comic book bad guys. Or something out of Power Rangers. With what's her name now the leader after killing the other dude it really got silly and why do they have factions? Like they are Klingons or something. The shows final season , which started off fine is turning into just more of the same.
 
Comic book bad guys in DS9, much less so now as we learn about factions, family, leaders, and someone who breaks away from them. Outwardly they're the big bad, but their motivations are now clearer, their abilities more defined, and they successfully do what a threat is created for.

The pace for this episode was fast, with 3 different stories that combined at the end. I'd say this was probably the least boring episode of a non-boring season.

Back to be being boring. I mean this one was really bad. You got a interesting concept with the library but it's just backdrop to once again for the 500th time to key to solving the problem is Burnham getting in touch of with her feelings and then when she does it's treated as this remarkable thing. Because of course no other person has ever comes to terms that they might have trauma or flaws within themselves.

The Breen have been turned into bad comic book bad guys. Or something out of Power Rangers. With what's her name now the leader after killing the other dude it really got silly and why do they have factions? Like they are Klingons or something. The shows final season , which started off fine is turning into just more of the same.
 
Mill overthrowing the Primarch opens a door for a peaceful resolution for everyone.

La'k gets revived, Book uses the World Tree root to essentially reconstitute Kweijan.
That seems a reasonable assumption. I thought of this but dismissed it at first, but I think you may be on the right track.

The more I watch the season, 2 things are apparent:

The tech is too powerful for anyone to keep (because the urge to restore dead things is too great) and that question was raised in this episode. This will come to a head.

Every clue and solution has been a test, some were: do you really want to do that, giving a chance to rethink. Others are a test of character.

Both allow a decision to be made, and I think they may want to lose it.
 
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Man, this was so disappointing. This season as a whole has been so disappointing.

Starting with the worst aspect first, the Breen Primarch was fucking awful. Absolute Gargamel/Dr. Claw level villain. Every one of the scenes on the Breen ship felt like an AI upscaled version of a Saturday morning cartoon, with zero nuance and cheesy, expository dialogue. I can't even complain about the complete insanity that Moll shanked him and seemingly is the "new Primarch," because at least I don't have to deal with that one-dimensional pile of crap again. Any interesting aspects of the Breen introduced in Mirrors are absent - they're just Season 1 Klingon expys in masks now.

Turning to the library, I thought it was a good concept, with a bad execution. Part of this was down to some of the production choices. Making the library look so similar to a recognizable 21st century Earth library, and having the Archivist talk like a customer service representative was a...a choice. I don't think it was a good one though. It highlighted to me the stagey aspects of the show, which made it hard to suspend disbelief.

The core concept of having Michael in a sort of "mental prison" which she had to puzzle out a solution to reminded me most of the DS9 episode Move Along Home. I don't think that episode is the nadir of DS9 like some do, but that's still ... not a good thing to be reminded of. Worse is unlike that episode (or other similar ones, like VOY's The Thaw) Michael is stuck in there alone, with only the AI which happens to look like Book for company. I recognize that the Trek formula often requires actors to tell rather than show, but it comes across as much more awkward when she's essentially monologuing for the convenience of the viewer. The climax, where Michael admits her insecurities, was so close to being an amazing scene, but because she was admitting it to a non-sentient pile of data, it just didn't land.

The B plot involving everyone outside of Michael's mind trying to fend off the Breen was...fine. I was really confused about why Rayner bothered to transport over and get stranded, given the XO should stay on the ship if the Captain is on an away mission, but it gave Rhys a chance to sit in the big chair, which I'm happy with. I'd rather we saw more of Owo or Detmer, but at least one of the few remaining bridge crew from Season 1 is still getting lines.

Can anyone explain to me what the hell Book was apologizing for to Michael at the start of the episode? Can anyone explain how the Discovery didn't know how to navigate the Badlands, given there's 800+ years of experience by now?

Oh, and the absolute dumbest of dumb shit - Michael giving the Breen Primarch the map to the...whatever it's going to be! Yeah, she had a double-cross planned, but still, with a Red Directive mission, and understanding the stakes (that Federation HQ, and possibly much more, will die if the Breen get there first) she should have triaged the library, and it's thousands of staff, to save millions/billions. That's what you do in command - make difficult choices. I mean, I had been wondering up until this episode how the hell Moll was going to stay in the game, with Discovery having all the clues, and the answer is just because Michael hands them all over to create artificial tension for another two episodes. ARRGH!

There were a few sections I liked. It was nice to see Rhys in command, as I noted. David Ajala was acting his heart out when he got the world tree root cutting. Rayner was great here too as well. But structurally, and in terms of execution, so, so much was either boring or actively bad here.

Even if the final two episodes are good, this is absolutely going to go down as my least favorite Discovery season now.
 
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The needs of the many or the few question again...the irreplaceable library and a thousand lives or potential subjugation of the galaxy?

Well, I know one thing: not a single Trek captain would have been written as sacrificing those lives. Full stop. Doing so would have been dumb.

With choices still left, Burnham has a chance to stop the Breen. A fighting chance to live. That's why they reestablished the Federation and its ideals.

So far probably my favorite season. Excellent questions to ask, a nice balance of action and some cool but not slavish callbacks.

Man, this was so disappointing. This season as a whole has been so disappointing.

Starting with the worst aspect first, the Breen Primarch was fucking awful. Absolute Gargamel/Dr. Claw level villain. Every one of the scenes on the Breen ship felt like an AI upscaled version of a Saturday morning cartoon, with zero nuance and cheesy, expository dialogue. I can't even complain about the complete insanity that Moll shanked him and seemingly is the "new Primarch," because at least I don't have to deal with that one-dimensional pile of crap again. Any interesting aspects of the Breen introduced in mirrors are absent - they're just Season 1 Klingon expys in masks now.

Turning to the library, I thought it was a good concept, with a bad execution. Part of this was down to some of the production choices. Making the library look so similar to a recognizable 21st century Earth library, and having the librarian talk like a customer service representative was a...a choice. I don't think it was a good one though. It highlighted to me the stagey aspects of the show, which made it hard to suspend disbelief.

The core concept of having Michael in a sort of "mental prison" which she had to puzzle out a solution to reminded me most of the DS9 episode Move Along Home. I don't think that episode is the nadir of DS9 like some do, but that's still...not a good thing to be reminded of. Worse is unlike that episode (or other similar ones, like VOY's The Thaw) Michael is stuck in there alone, with only the AI which happens to look like Book for company. I recognize that the Trek formula often requires actors to tell rather than show, but it comes across as much more awkward when she's essentially monologuing for the convenience of the viewer. The climax, where Michael admits her insecurities, was so close to being an amazing scene, but because she was admitting it to a non-sentient pile of data, it just didn't land.

The B plot involving everyone outside of Michael's mind trying to fend off the Breen was...fine. I was really confused about why Rayner bothered to transport over and get stranded, given the XO should stay on the ship if the Captain is on an away mission, but it gave Rhys a chance to sit in the big chair, which I'm happy with. I'd rather we saw more of Owo or Detmer, but at least one of the few remaining bridge crew from Season 1 is still getting lines.

Can anyone explain to me what the hell Book was apologizing for to Michael at the start of the episode? Can anyone explain how the Discovery didn't know how to navigate the Badlands, given there's 800+ years of experience by now?

Oh, and the absolute dumbest of dumb shit - Michael giving the Breen Primarch the map to the...whatever it's going to be! Yeah, she had a double-cross planned, but still, with a Red Directive mission, and understanding the stakes (that Federation HQ, and possibly much more, will die if the Breen get there first) she should have triaged the library, and it's thousands of staff, to save millions/billions. That's what you do in command - make difficult choices. I mean, I had been wondering up until this episode how the hell Moll was going to stay in the game, with Discovery having all the clues, and the answer is just because Michael hands them all over to create artificial tension for another two episodes. ARRGH!

There were a few sections I liked. It was nice to see Rhys in command, as I noted. David Ajala was acting his heart out when he got the world tree root cutting. Rayner was great here too as well. But structurally, and in terms of execution, so, so much was either boring or actively bad here.

Even if the final two episodes are good, this is absolutely going to go down as my least favorite Discovery season now.
 
The needs of the many or the few question again...the irreplaceable library and a thousand lives or potential subjugation of the galaxy?

If they played up the irreplaceable archives more, I think I would have found the quandary more compelling.

Well, I know one thing: not a single Trek captain would have been written as sacrificing those lives. Full stop. Doing so would have been dumb.

I don't think Jonathan Archer would have blinked an eye when it came to not rescuing a colony or something if it meant staying on track to find the Xindi weapon.

But I disagree we've not seen sacrifice before onscreen. Picard sent Sito Jaxa on a suicide mission. DS9's In the Pale Moonlight is one of the most compelling episodes of Trek ever because SIsko sacrifices his ideals for the greater good. Or the numerous times (particularly on TNG) where captains have set up auto-destruct sequences (where not only they, but the crew would die) to stop the ship from falling into enemy hands. Janeway fucking murdered Tuvix! Sisko released poison gas into an atmosphere to flush out the Maquis. There are lots of examples where "the mission" overrules maximum life-saving.

Regardless, good drama requires choices be put in front of a protagonist which are difficult to make, and this was a cheap cop-out.

With choices still left, Burnham has a chance to stop the Breen. A fighting chance to live. That's why they reestablished the Federation and its ideals.

I'm far from an edgelord, but any organization which is expected to always prioritize rescuing people in distress over even internal security will not survive, even in a utopian future.

So far probably my favorite season. Excellent questions to ask, a nice balance of action and some cool but not slavish callbacks.

I've sometimes been Discovery critical, but this is the first season where the arc as a whole just isn't interesting to me. Largely because nothing between Episode 1 and next week has been about the Progenitors at all, just wheel spinning to get to the end of the season arc.
 
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Still processing this one. Parts of it were some of the best scenes of the entire season so far. Towards the end it kind of started to fizzle a little and ironically around the time they assemble the final clue with the others.

It was a good Season 5 episode but Book was probably the MVP of the week.
 
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