If Denobulans aren't members of the Federation, why are they bound by a Federation Prime Directive?
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x06 - "Whistlespeak"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Ah, so you're arguing the point was to purposefully create a situation where the installation would shape the culture into thinking of them as gods.
Denobula has been a Federation member since 2180, according to the ST Theurgy Wiki page I found. Don't know how accurate that is, but it's something.
ETA: Ok. Sorry. I didn't realize that site wasn't using canonical info.
ETA: Ok. Sorry. I didn't realize that site wasn't using canonical info.
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That's not a canon wiki. The closest we've got is some Denobulan starfleet running around in Prodigy but that's meaningless (Nog for example), and in fact Denobulans' policy of allowing genetic engineering vs the strict Fed rules against it would lean towards Denobulans not being a member
This is a really good point. Though, an obvious work-around is that Kreel was a Starfleet officer a la Nog or Worf.
This episode was pretty ho-hum for me, though it had some nice character moments.
It did really bug me that when the oxygen was being depleted from the temple, there were several lit fires that apparently Tilly did not consider snuffing out to try and keep oxygen levels up a little longer.
Is Culber going to ascend like O'Connell on Lower Decks? Hail the koala!
This one was weak. They had a façade of worldbuilding with the pre-warp civilization, but it was super lazy. Oh, they have a fun "comrade" analogue that they call each other! Also, they have 3 genders, but there's no clear distinction between the 3rd gender and the other 2! Fun! What a deeply fleshed out alien civilization! The episode was titled "Whistlespeak", but that was a tiny part of the story and was in no way integral. "The High Summit" would be a better title. 5.
The father and Culber used "They" and "Them" when describing his daughter. No need to beat the audience over the head with it.
It's not. Theurgy exists in its own timeline.
By all means, this episode shouldn't have worked for me. I've long found visits to pre-warp planets in post-TOS Star Trek really hit-and-miss, with mostly barely disguised Native American allegories or carbon copies of mid-90s action-adventure fantasy shows with the serial numbers filed off. Halem'no seemed little different at first, evoking anxious memories of Voyager's hamfisted but ultimately thin cultural-spiritual adventures that never ventured further into any message than the barest, most generic, most inoffensive points. Needless to say, I wasn't really sold on Ohvazh and his child Ravah either, seeing character archetypes in them that we've seen a million times before, with Ravah's gender identity being the only difference from the usual "eager teenage daughter who insists she's grown up" trope.
And yet, here I am at the end, misty-eyed and trying to figure out if I can call what I am feeling cathartic. Against all my resolve to just force myself through this episode, it managed to touch me in the end, in its depiction of fatherly love overriding blind faith, Tilly growing up at last and cementing her transformation from wide-eyed, anxious newcomer into a comforting, nurturing mother figure (how fitting for someone who has steadily established herself as Discovery's heart in recent years) and Burnham's determination to cut through the constraints of the Prime Directive like Starfleet's own Gordian Knot, all culminating in the rains washing away all that sorrow along with the dust constantly besieging this last green oasis on Halem'no, and suggesting a hopeful tomorrow with the core values of the Halem'nites being vocally reaffirmed even without the need for ritual sacrifice.
Needless to say, I was very pleased with the fresh way they treated the Prime Directive in this one, with Rayner's behavior making it clear he treated it practically as an annoyance that needlessly complicated matters, never objecting to Burnham's orders beyond reminding her of the legal red tape coming her way, and with the latter, instead of painfully tying herself into knots to avoid the specter of the dreaded, yet always nebulous contamination, trying to explain the situation to Ohvazh on his level of understanding as tactfully as possible. Of course just coming down from the heavens and giving replicators to the ancient Sumerians would be irresponsible, but we shouldn't shy away from doing damage control (contrast it with TNG's Homeward with Picard being ready to let the Boraalans go extinct and almost treating it with religious reverence as if it was a matter of divine will), especially when the entire culture we're dealing with was built around (and is literally being kept alive by) a piece of technology we had put there ourselves in the first place.
Hugh's subplot was also fairly interesting, especially in light of him being disappointed that Paul seemingly didn't fully understand what he was going through - and then Book basically had to spell it out to him that Paul was in fact right all along. This is Hugh's journey and his own spiritual awakening, there's nothing for Paul to understand about it. All he has to do is be there for him.
Some of the random stuff:
And yet, here I am at the end, misty-eyed and trying to figure out if I can call what I am feeling cathartic. Against all my resolve to just force myself through this episode, it managed to touch me in the end, in its depiction of fatherly love overriding blind faith, Tilly growing up at last and cementing her transformation from wide-eyed, anxious newcomer into a comforting, nurturing mother figure (how fitting for someone who has steadily established herself as Discovery's heart in recent years) and Burnham's determination to cut through the constraints of the Prime Directive like Starfleet's own Gordian Knot, all culminating in the rains washing away all that sorrow along with the dust constantly besieging this last green oasis on Halem'no, and suggesting a hopeful tomorrow with the core values of the Halem'nites being vocally reaffirmed even without the need for ritual sacrifice.
Needless to say, I was very pleased with the fresh way they treated the Prime Directive in this one, with Rayner's behavior making it clear he treated it practically as an annoyance that needlessly complicated matters, never objecting to Burnham's orders beyond reminding her of the legal red tape coming her way, and with the latter, instead of painfully tying herself into knots to avoid the specter of the dreaded, yet always nebulous contamination, trying to explain the situation to Ohvazh on his level of understanding as tactfully as possible. Of course just coming down from the heavens and giving replicators to the ancient Sumerians would be irresponsible, but we shouldn't shy away from doing damage control (contrast it with TNG's Homeward with Picard being ready to let the Boraalans go extinct and almost treating it with religious reverence as if it was a matter of divine will), especially when the entire culture we're dealing with was built around (and is literally being kept alive by) a piece of technology we had put there ourselves in the first place.
Hugh's subplot was also fairly interesting, especially in light of him being disappointed that Paul seemingly didn't fully understand what he was going through - and then Book basically had to spell it out to him that Paul was in fact right all along. This is Hugh's journey and his own spiritual awakening, there's nothing for Paul to understand about it. All he has to do is be there for him.
Some of the random stuff:
- The Betazoid is called Marina
- The music cue at the final wide shot of the High Summit and the rains sounded quite like David Bell's DS9 and Voyager scores. I found it quite fitting considering he scored the similarly Indiana Jones-esque The Sword of Kahless, among others.
I really struggled to keep my attention on this episode. Did I miss them getting the device part at the end, or did they just not show it?
They didn't show it. Tilly shows Michael the carved symbol on the wall of the chamber but we never see them retrieve the device.
2 Funny things to note. The feds in the 32nd century lost a 800 year old escape pod going warp 2. Second thing is fat out of shape Tilly won a marathon, rofl.
Kind of boring episode, nothing really interesting was mention or done. So why didn't they bring up the other towers before leaving like they planned, didn't they teach them how to. I'm trying to remember more of this episode, but I just watched it and nothing is coming to me.
When Burnham said she is not a god, I doubt she believed that. Though they are trying to bring a more down to earth Burham this season, rather than godhood Burnham.
Kind of boring episode, nothing really interesting was mention or done. So why didn't they bring up the other towers before leaving like they planned, didn't they teach them how to. I'm trying to remember more of this episode, but I just watched it and nothing is coming to me.
When Burnham said she is not a god, I doubt she believed that. Though they are trying to bring a more down to earth Burham this season, rather than godhood Burnham.
There might have not been enough time to fix the remaining four towers, depending on how much time has passed until Christopher relayed the new orders to jump to Moll and L'ak's location immediately. For all we know, they might send another vessel to do the repairs.
Not ok
I've feeling if was filmed before they canceled LD.
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