Enterprise deserved another season
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
- Start date
I don't think it made any sense to Jeri and Robert, either. I think both have as much said so in appearances.
More in general, I didn't see any good reason to couple 7 with anyone. By the end of VOY, 7 had come a long way from how she started out, but in my view, she wasn't remotely ready for 'dating', yet.
Not really the same. For one, Seven WAS human. Her story was about reclaiming the humanity that was forcibly stolen from her. Part of what made the Borg so popular -- and why "Resistance is Futile" etched itself so neatly into the zeitgeist -- is how they reflected the geopolitical climate of the time.
But beyond that, Seven herself was more a reflection of the barrage of mass-kidnappings and cult standoffs (and the human-trafficking that went along with them) that ran rampant in the 80s and early 90s in the US. Seven was may more Kimmy Schmidt than she was Spock or Data. The irony is not lost then that one of the buzzwords commonly thrown around to describe the process of reintegrating those taken children back into society was "re-assimilation".
In this context, one COULD make the argument that her outfits were as much about her reclaiming her own sexuality, especially given how she came about just as third-wave was ramping up, which sought to distinguish itself from the cishet, white, upper middle-class cookie-cutter feminist collective of second-wave (That also gifted us TERF culture.) by focusing on the sexual expression and freedom of the individual over 'women' as singular identity. (Hell, one could go as far as suggesting Krige was then the embodiment of the latter.)
An opinion shared with many involved with the show, not to mention a spark for countless discussion over the years. But you did misquote me and conveniently leave out one important word, which makes this dangerously close to bad faith.
This perception is entirely yours alone, which is like Digits's entire point.
When you prop yourself up as some kind of champion against the sexiness and then say misogynistic shit like this, it really hard to take you seriously. (Emphasis for effect.)
Not really, no. While over objectification of women was (and still is) a rampant problem, no other franchise or property has the history of self-aggrandizing and promoting itself as some great visionary and progressive beacon the way Star Trek has.
Seven is a decent character.
She is short changed by the outfits. Same with T'Pol.
Call it a pet peeve of mine.
I think there’s a better argument for T’Pol. Some of the ways she was shown were downright juvenile.
I hated T'Pol at first. My posting history from 2001 through roughly early 2003 proved that. But it was hard to argue then as well as now that B&B oversexualized her even by Seven of Nine standards and the introduction of decon gel scenes into the basic premise of ENT was just a vehicle to have Jolene Blalock half-naked and see gel smeared all over her body.
Jolene, much like Jeri, rose above some of what she was given and made her character more than just eye candy, but damn, many of the early episodes in that illogical, overly tight Vulcan catsuit did not make her job any easier.
Jolene, much like Jeri, rose above some of what she was given and made her character more than just eye candy, but damn, many of the early episodes in that illogical, overly tight Vulcan catsuit did not make her job any easier.
It looked great, I just meant TOS wasn't made with warp jumps in mind so it would require pretty heavy re-editing to work
And you get that because someone said "Hey, this worked with 7 of 9. What if we did MORE?"
Of... 1989 / 1990? Who would have been the geopolitical Borg in this scenario?
Her scenes in "BOUNTY" were particularly bad.
"You have the cure I need..."
Literally porn dialogue.
That episode is fantastic for the Archer-Tellarite scenes and downright cringe for everything involving T'Pol.
And in no way preferable to the original silver.
Still fear around the USSR and China.
Let's see, a major global event that saw the clash of a collective-based society with one heavily focused on individualism symbolized by a singular monolithic object in 1989? Hmm can't think of one.
But the irony, or 'twist', is that they just as much represent global Westernization primarily through the diffusion of technology -- which certainly has been a thing since the industrial revolution. But there was no doubt a more insidious element that came about with the computer age (or the world wide web more specifically).
It was if you're Jeri Ryan.
I'm sorry don't share your reasons on why Seven was created. And personally I don't believe the producers & TPTB were thinking that serious when they were coming up with the idea of Seven.
Everyone involved was pretty straightforward about why Seven was created & why she was dressed the way she was. They wanted wanted sex appeal, so created a character they could dress for the young male demographic. Also none of the other actresses were going to do the men's photoshoots / magazine's, but Jeri had no issues with that, so it helped build up the sex image they wanted to sell to the male audience.
And I'm not championing anything, but i think it's kinda native to think that Jeri's relationship with Braga didn't bring her any benefits, when it came to the focus on her character. Everyone knows that the reason for the Seven & Holo Chakotay episode, was because Braga couldn't take joke. So the episode was created and it focused on Seven wants & fantasies.
And for some reason you are taking my words about Jeri as some attack on the actress. I don't know the actress and I think she plays the cool blonde type character very well. But that's just opinion like some who think Jeri was this innocent sweet native person, when she joined Voyager.
While she's not bad as a character, when the direction they intended to take her character development into became clear my knee jerk response was 'here we go again'. I had the feeling I'd already seen much of the same with Data and the EMH (and possibly Spock). True, it wasn't exactly the same, in her case it was more 'reclaiming lost humanity' (and I felt a lot more repressed anger, too), but still.
I might have appreciated her character more, hadn't I seen TOS, TNG, and DS9 before.
Now, that's not to be confused with what the actress did, Jeri did a terrific job with the material she was given.
I already commented on her costume before (in which I largely agree with you), so I don't see the need to do so again.
Last edited:
Weird.
The record is quite clear that Seven was conceived as a Borg first, "Borg babe" second. The idea of "Borg babe" was contributed by Berman after listening to the pitch from Braga of a Borg character that had been approved by Menosky. From https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Seven_of_Nine#Background_information:
The concept of Seven of Nine began while Brannon Braga was sitting at home, late one night, and saw a televised promotion for the Borg-centric third season installment "Unity". (Braving the Unknown: Season Four, VOY Season 4 DVD; Cinefantastique, Vol. 30, No. 9/10, p. 75) The idea of having a Borg crewman aboard the starship Voyager – a notion that instantly appealed to Braga – occurred to him as he was watching the advertisement. (Cinefantastique, Vol. 30, No. 9/10, p. 75) He then brought the character concept to the attention of fellow writer Joe Menosky. Braga later remembered, "I called Joe Menosky, and pitched this idea, and he thought it was a great idea. And then we talked about it and all the things… 'What would that mean, to have a Borg character?' It would be really cool." (Braving the Unknown: Season Four, VOY Season 4 DVD) Braga also related, "I called Joe Menosky and we brainstormed. I wanted to make sure it wasn't a stupid idea." (Cinefantastique, Vol. 30, No. 9/10, p. 75) After Menosky approved of the concept, Braga called Executive Producer Rick Berman. "It was late, but I was so excited […] He really liked the idea but he had the stroke of genius, 'Make it a Borg babe,'" said Braga. "And we just talked about it, for a couple hours, and we just thought, 'This is a really cool idea. This could be really... just the thing we need.'" (Braving the Unknown: Season Four, VOY Season 4 DVD) This marathon conversation between Berman and Braga took place in the spring of 1997. (A Vision of the Future - Star Trek: Voyager, p. 348) Berman was not the only executive producer to whom Braga suggested the idea of a Borg crew member, however. "I […] took it in to Rick Berman and Jeri Taylor," Braga said, "and they liked the idea." (Cinefantastique, Vol. 30, No. 9/10, p. 75) Taylor herself commented, "The idea of having a female Borg was one of those that came largely through spontaneous combustion. It started with Brannon, and quickly gained a great deal of support." (A Vision of the Future - Star Trek: Voyager, p. 348)
This contradicts your assertion that that "everyone" involved with the creation of the character had created Seven in order to bring sex appeal to the show.
Also, it's good form to refer to women by their surnames when you refer to all the men by their surnames, especially when you don't know them.
The changes between the TOS Klingons and the TMP - DS9 Klingons did not need an explaination, however I enjoy the ENT episodes and its a good in universe explaination.
Similar threads
- Locked
