What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Starry-eyed]

Dismissing? No. Patronizing? Maybe?

Also, way to miss Digits's point entirely.

How. The character was created for sex appeal & was used as an sex object on the show for a male demography. Everything they did with the character was geared towards the male eye. And Jeri Ryan did what she could with the character and used all the opportunities the catsuit gave her & it did open doors for her. Which I think she is probably very grateful for, but it doesn't change why & what the focus on the character was for the whole run of Voyager. They could at anytime changed the costume & how they presented Seven, but they never did. Also Seven didn't have to wear the catsuit in Picard, just confirms that the catsuit wasn't needed. And it was all about sexing up a character for the sake if it.

Also Nurse Chapel on SNW she wears a catsuit, but it's not the focus point of the character as its her characters uniform. compared to Seven, T'pol and Troi, who tight bodyformed outfits were forced & loud selling an image.

 

[1001001]

How. The character was created for sex appeal & was used as an sex object on the show for a male demography. Everything they did with the character was geared towards the male eye. And Jeri Ryan did what she could with the character and used all the opportunities the catsuit gave her & it did open doors for her. Which I think she is probably very grateful for, but it doesn't change why & what the focus on the character was for the whole run of Voyager. They could at anytime changed the costume & how they presented Seven, but they never did. Also Seven didn't have to wear the catsuit in Picard, just confirms that the catsuit wasn't needed. And it was all about sexing up a character for the sake if it.

Also Nurse Chapel on SNW she wears a catsuit, but it's not the focus point of the character as its her characters uniform. compared to Seven, T'pol and Troi, who tight bodyformed outfits were forced & loud selling an image.

You’re saying that as if it’s objective reality.

The viewer brings themselves into it. It’s projection.

If someone focuses on her outfit instead of her character, the viewer bears some responsibility for that.

 

[HotRod]

Jeri's a 32D by nature, and the added height from her heels probably resulted in her actual chest muscles being pushed outward.

Can we go a week without you talking about someone's tits?

Yeesh.

 

[Jack Wolfe]

Can we go a week without you talking about someone's tits?

Yeesh.

Creeper gonna creep.

 

[Starry-eyed]

You’re saying that as if it’s objective reality.

The viewer brings themselves into it. It’s projection.

If someone focuses on her outfit instead of her character, the viewer bears some responsibility for that.

When Seven was created the focus was on her costume & her body. The publicity was concentrate on those attributes & that's what the show wanted. So blaming the audience for noticing something the show wanted the audience to notice doesn't make sense to me.

Also alot of show including Star Trek have beautiful women & men in sexy clothing, but it's not the main selling point of the character. To this day i see fans refer to Seven's body instead of the characters development on Voyager.

Amyway, my main point is what they did with Seven wasn't needed to sell the character. They could have done the same stuff without having to sex up the character. Also the focus on the character was essentially either as the audience had already moved on from the new shiny object, which always happens.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I said this in the most recent Zoom call, that while I understood the early switching away from Jeri's silver catsuit because it made her uncomfortable, I actually preferred it as a viewer because it made Seven look more artificial. The other suits may have been easier on her physically, but I think they rushed that change too quickly from a story standpoint.

 

[Tallguy]

Everything they did with the character was geared towards the male eye.

Everything they did with the costume and the casting. As evidenced with the character's resonance all these years later, "they" (whoever "they" are) must have done something to connect with an audience beyond drooling male fanboys.

If someone focuses on her outfit instead of her character, the viewer bears some responsibility for that.

Ultimately, sure. But that was the aim of the design. I seem to recall Berman saying something about how he missed the sex appeal of TOS. I think it's the only positive thing I've ever heard him say about TOS.

 

[fireproof78]

When Seven was created the focus was on her costume & her body. The publicity was concentrate on those attributes & that's what the show wanted. So blaming the audience for noticing something the show wanted the audience to notice doesn't make sense to me.

Yup. The marketing presentation completely shifted when it came to Seven, compared to Janeway or Kes or Torres.

It's frustrating as hell because I was hoping for a little more character spark and such but discussions with my friends at the time focused on the outfit.

With an outward physical presentation like that the goal was plainly stated on the box.

 

[eschaton]

I guess I was in the target demographic at the time (I was 18 when Scorpion, Part II came out), but Seven did nothing for me.

Ezri Dax on the other hand...

 

[CorporalClegg]

When Seven was created the focus was on her costume & her body.

Yeah. No.

On a purely core-conceptual level, Seven is the most unique character of the franchise. That's why she was created. The writers were handed a golden opportunity and they took it, which is exactly why they inevitably directed so much of the storytelling in her direction. As such, the majority of the better episodes of the later seasons was either Seven-centric or at least Seven-adjacent. Now this certainly has a lot to do with volume, but that's kind of the point. This was also due, in part, to Ryan's talent as an actor. She arguably became the best on the show, as Picardo and Mulgrew spent much of the last two seasons on their phones. The net result was what was arguably the most fleshed-out and robust character of the era, save Kira. (And let's not pretend Visitor spent her time running around in baggy dungarees, either.)

And there-in lies the point. Star Trek's portrayal and treatment of women has always been pretty scummy and gross, to say the least. And it takes a pretty big leap to suggest Seven's fit was any worse than Dax's, just because Dax had a proper Starfleet uniform. (Spoiler Alert: Farrell had boob-padding too.) And there was plenty of camera-eye male-gazing of Farrell (That kiss FFS.) and Sirtis. Yet somehow no one ever thought to call them "Spotted Barbie" or "Feelings Barbie".

"Borg Barbie" inherently equates Seven (Ryan, even.) to a child's play-thing -- a literal object -- and dismisses all the work the writers and Ryan put into the character. Invoking it as an obvious pejorative is dismissive, reductive, and patronizing AF.

 

[Corran Horn]

controversial opinion - if when they did TOS-R they normalized the warp jump/warp visuals and syntax of certain things ("Starfleet", "Federation", Quadrant naming) to the mid/late TNG 'forms' I would've been fine with it. (I know the audio stuff would've been difficult or impossible)

 

[at Quark's]

Also alot of show including Star Trek have beautiful women & men in sexy clothing, but it's not the main selling point of the character. To this day i see fans refer to Seven's body instead of the characters development on Voyager.

While I wasn't particularly partial to the 7 of 9 character, I'm not convinced her body was her main selling point. More like the initial eye-catcher. I think her main selling point still was 'Discovering What It Means To Be Human Coming From an Non-human background' as a character, even if by that time I couldn't call the trope exactly original anymore (Spock, Data, EMH).

 

[Starry-eyed]

Yeah. No.

On a purely core-conceptual level, Seven is the most unique character of the franchise. That's why she was created. The writers were handed a golden opportunity and they took it, which is exactly why they inevitably directed so much of the storytelling in her direction. As such, the majority of the better episodes of the later seasons was either Seven-centric or at least Seven-adjacent. Now this certainly has a lot to do with volume, but that's kind of the point. This was also due, in part, to Ryan's talent as an actor. She arguably became the best on the show, as Picardo and Mulgrew spent much of the last two seasons on their phones. The net result was what was arguably the most fleshed-out and robust character of the era, save Kira. (And let's not pretend Visitor spent her time running around in baggy dungarees, either.)

And there-in lies the point. Star Trek's portrayal and treatment of women has always been pretty scummy and gross, to say the least. And it takes a pretty big leap to suggest Seven's fit was any worse than Dax's, just because Dax had a proper Starfleet uniform. (Spoiler Alert: Farrell had boob-padding too.) And there was plenty of camera-eye male-gazing of Farrell (That kiss FFS.) and Sirtis. Yet somehow no one ever thought to call them "Spotted Barbie" or "Feelings Barbie".

"Borg Barbie" inherently equates Seven (Ryan, even.) to a child's play-thing -- a literal object -- and dismisses all the work the writers and Ryan put into the character. Invoking it as an obvious pejorative is dismissive, reductive, and patronizing AF.

"Seven is the most unique character of the franchise." That's your opinion not fact. As it is my opinion that the character was created for sex appeal and it did what the show / producers wanted. Also this is my opinion that Jeri relationship with Braga played a huge part in her character getting alot of attention in episodes.

And I'm sorry but I disagree about the outfits all being the same, Dax, Chapel and Kira uniforms weren't the selling point of their characters. Seven's catsuit was used to sell the character to the audience & yes they did the whole "Seven finds her humanity". But it doesn't change the fact the character was created for sex appeal & was treated & dressed for the male demo they wanted.

Also the fact her last big story on Voyager was about her hooking up with random male aka Chakotay says everything about how the writers wanted the character to be seem.

 

[Starry-eyed]

"Seven is the most unique character of the franchise." That's your opinion not fact. As it is my opinion that the character was created for sex appeal and it did what the show / producers wanted. Also this is my opinion that Jeri relationship with Braga played a huge part in her character getting alot of attention in episodes.

And I'm sorry but I disagree about the outfits all being the same, Dax, Chapel and Kira uniforms weren't the selling point of their characters. Seven's catsuit was used to sell the character to the audience & yes they did the whole "Seven finds her humanity". But it doesn't change the fact the character was created for sex appeal & was treated & dressed for the male demo they wanted.

Also the fact her last big story on Voyager was about her hooking up with random male aka Chakotay says everything about how the writers wanted the character to be seen & who they were selling Seven to.

 

[F. King Daniel]

controversial opinion - if when they did TOS-R they normalized the warp jump/warp visuals and syntax of certain things ("Starfleet", "Federation", Quadrant naming) to the mid/late TNG 'forms' I would've been fine with it. (I know the audio stuff would've been difficult or impossible)

I really don't think you could have put TMP/TNG etc style warp effects in TOS. It wasn't made for it and scenes wouldn't have worked visually, especially battle scenes.

 

[1001001]

While I wasn't particularly partial to the 7 of 9 character, I'm not convinced her body was her main selling point. More like the initial eye-catcher. I think her main selling point still was 'Discovering What It Means To Be Human Coming From an Non-human background' as a character, even if by that time I couldn't call the trope exactly original anymore (Spock, Data, EMH).

My wife and I have been rewatching VOY.

Yes, Seven is in a catsuit. An ugly, brownish thing.

Other than that, there's nothing sexualized about her performance. There's no exploitation, no double entendres, no falling into her boobs while tied together (I'm looking at you, ENT). No sleeping around, no decon scenes, no cleavage shots, no nothing.

The character is naive, almost child-like.

So blaming the audience for noticing something the show wanted the audience to notice doesn't make sense to me.
.

Who's "blaming the audience?" What I actually said is that if someone focuses exclusively on her clothing, well...they bear SOME responsibility. Some.

TV shows have attractive people on them. This is not exactly new.

So, yeah. She's in a skin tight outfit. BFD. The character was a lot more than that.

 

[Praetor]

controversial opinion - if when they did TOS-R they normalized the warp jump/warp visuals and syntax of certain things ("Starfleet", "Federation", Quadrant naming) to the mid/late TNG 'forms' I would've been fine with it. (I know the audio stuff would've been difficult or impossible)

I honestly wouldn't have been that sad if they'd normalized the starship registries.

U.S.S. Constellation NCC-1710 has a ring to it.

 

[Farscape One]

"Seven is the most unique character of the franchise." That's your opinion not fact. As it is my opinion that the character was created for sex appeal and it did what the show / producers wanted. Also this is my opinion that Jeri relationship with Braga played a huge part in her character getting alot of attention in episodes.

And I'm sorry but I disagree about the outfits all being the same, Dax, Chapel and Kira uniforms weren't the selling point of their characters. Seven's catsuit was used to sell the character to the audience & yes they did the whole "Seven finds her humanity". But it doesn't change the fact the character was created for sex appeal & was treated & dressed for the male demo they wanted.

Also the fact her last big story on Voyager was about her hooking up with random male aka Chakotay says everything about how the writers wanted the character to be seem.

I agree that randomly hooking up Seven and Chakotay together for the finale was a pretty dumb move, mostly because it came out of nowhere.

But Seven's character was not treated as simple eye candy. Her outfits aside, nothing about her character had a primarily sexual component to it. Quite the opposite, really. She was given a LOT of great material, and Jeri Ryan's portrayal elevated it even further.

And while I was never a fan of the whole catsuit outfit for her, Seven's outfits are hardly the only example of taking the phrase 'sex sells' seriously. And definitely not just STAR TREK.

Pretty much every series and movie had this mentality. Calling out this franchise on that behavior is really a pot/kettle/black situation.

Unlike many other shows or franchises (particularly back then), she was written as an intelligent person. It is quite possible to be intelligent and still be physically alluring. Or would you have preferred her to be the STAR TREK equivalent of Kelly Bundy?

If you can't see Seven's character as more than what she looked like, it honestly says more about you than the character.

 

[1001001]

I agree that randomly hooking up Seven and Chakotay together for the finale was a pretty dumb move, mostly because it came out of nowhere.

I definitely agree with that. Seven and Chakotay made no sense to me.

 

[Corran Horn]

I really don't think you could have put TMP/TNG etc style warp effects in TOS. It wasn't made for it and scenes wouldn't have worked visually, especially battle scenes.

The Constitution-Class Defiant looks pretty great in those two Enterprise episodes.