Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x04 - "Face the Strange"

[Lord Garth]

In retrospect, it looks to me like in Season 1 they killed off (or got rid of) the characters who would "fit in" the least. I can't picture Landry in later Discovery. She felt too much like Lorca's Right-Hand Woman. For all intents and purposes, they got rid of Stamets 1.0 (pre-Spores) and replaced him with Stamets 2.0 (post-Spores). Voq was gone by the end of the season, and it was just Ash with Voq's memories.

Even on the enemy side, they killed off T'Kuvma by the end of the second episode. There's no way I see T'Kuvma agreeing to any kind of peace. If he were still around at the end of the first season: he would've taken Georgiou's bomb, killed her "again", killed Burnham (he probably would've said "I'll finish what I started!"), and then he would've used the bomb to force all Klingon Factions to unite under him before they would've destroyed Earth. So, in that case, the Federation was definitely better off with L'Rell in charge.

Leaving Mirror Georgiou the only character with any sharp edges and the only contrast to the rest of the crew... until Rayner came along. They need to have at least one character like that. Other than more Tilly (obviously), it was the one thing missing from Season 4.

EDITED TO ADD: I thought Nhan was going to fill that harder-line role in Season 4, when they brought her back, but then she was only around for that one episode.

 

[Farscape One]

Audience outcries meant nothing. The season was written and filmed before the first episode was released. Culber was always coming back, protests or not.

Not necessarily. Culber wasn't brought back from the dead until season 2.

 

[Tuskin38]

Not necessarily. Culber wasn't brought back from the dead until season 2.

It was always the plan to bring him back.

But they weren't planning on telling us that until the uproar.

The interview where Wilson Cruz said he's coming back was done before the episode aired IIRC.

 

[eschaton]

Again, I maintain the reason why people wanted "more" out of characters like Owo and Detmer (and Airiam, before she died) was because of a weird disconnect between the design/direction of Season 1 and the writing.

Berman-era Trek had plenty of background extras who appeared at bridge stations. Some on Voyager were there for 100+ episodes. But they played nondescript human characters with boring haircuts, who not only seldom got lines, but seldom even were the focus of a shot. The visual design and camerawork let us know they weren't important, so we ignored them.

DIS didn't do the same. The background bridge characters often had cool design elements, like Owo's hair, Detmer's scars, undercut, and cybernetic implants, and everything about Airiam. There was bound to be speculation about them as a result. Add to this that the camera would actually focus on them for "reaction shots" when Michael or another main cast member delivered a line. The visual elements told us they were important, and so we wanted more. It did this less with some of the male extras, like Bryce, which is why people cared a lot less about them.

 

[Farscape One]

It was always the plan to bring him back.


The interview where Wilson Cruz said he's coming back was done before the episode aired IIRC.

The timing of the producers saying 'we always planned to have Culber back' to when it actually happened makes their statement rather suspect, though.

There were a LOT of behind the scenes problems during that time (including with the head writers themselves), so it's possible that it was planned but also equally possible the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, got the fan backlash, and course corrected with saying that.

 

[Tuskin38]

got the fan backlash, and course corrected with saying that.

How could they respond to backlash that hadn’t happened yet?

 

[eschaton]

The timing of the producers saying 'we always planned to have Culber back' to when it actually happened makes their statement rather suspect, though.

There were a LOT of behind the scenes problems during that time (including with the head writers themselves), so it's possible that it was planned but also equally possible the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, got the fan backlash, and course corrected with saying that.

It's really ironic that over time Culber has grown to be a character with more lines/more to do in the series than Stamets.

I'm glad that Anthony Rapp got something last week to sink his teeth into. He was so under-utilized last season I would have considered leaving the show, in his position.

 

[Lord Garth]

Again, I maintain the reason why people wanted "more" out of characters like Owo and Detmer (and Airiam, before she died) was because of a weird disconnect between the design/direction of Season 1 and the writing.

Berman-era Trek had plenty of background extras who appeared at bridge stations. Some on Voyager were there for 100+ episodes. But they played nondescript human characters with boring haircuts, who not only seldom got lines, but seldom even were the focus of a shot. The visual design and camerawork let us know they weren't important, so we ignored them.

DIS didn't do the same. The background bridge characters often had cool design elements, like Owo's hair, Detmer's scars, undercut, and cybernetic implants, and everything about Airiam. There was bound to be speculation about them as a result. Add to this that the camera would actually focus on them for "reaction shots" when Michael or another main cast member delivered a line. The visual elements told us they were important, and so we wanted more. It did this less with some of the male extras, like Bryce, which is why people cared a lot less about them.

I don't disagree with this, which is why I think they should've done more with Detmer and Owosekun. They did do more with them than the others, this is true, but they should've had their own story arcs each season, even if they were small ones. Detmer's PTSD after crashing Discovery was a good example of this.

Airiam, they had that going on when Control hacked her, that went on for a bit, then she had to sacrifice herself, and we got some backstory. I get killing off Airiam, because the original actress had a hard time with all the makeup, but once they had her playing Nilsson, they should've given Nilsson more to do, in exchange. Instead, she was keeping Airiam's seat warm after the character was written out. I can see why the actress wouldn't have come back, and why Nilsson was transferred to Voyager.

I would've liked to have seen the inside of Voyager at some point, but that's probably not going to happen in the six episodes left. Nilsson was sent "on a bus" (to reference TV Tropes) and the bus is called Voyager.

 

[Farscape One]

How could they respond to backlash that hadn’t happened yet?

What are you talking about? The backlash occured after Culber was killed, and that's when the producers were saying 'he was always planned to come back'.

Unless I'm misremembering, because I don't think there was any backlash before he was killed, therefore no reason to even make such a statement.

It's really ironic that over time Culber has grown to be a character with more lines/more to do in the series than Stamets.

I'm glad that Anthony Rapp got something last week to sink his teeth into. He was so under-utilized last season I would have considered leaving the show, in his position.

Agreed. Love Culber and Stamets. This episode reminded me of what we have been missing and how defanged Stamets has become.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You know, this whole thing really started because I said I was annoyed that it took this long to find out Rhys was chief of security.
I'm an actual fan of DSC, but I guess heaven forbid I actually have critiques of it. The way some of you guys knee-jerk your responses, you'd think the general mindset is that DSC has been a flawless show this while time

Far from flawless. Believe me, it has flaws across the board. And I don't think I've ever expressed the opinion that it is flawless.
You know what's also a knee jerk reaction? Accusations of "you think the the show is flawless" when a critique is challenged.
Now, I will admit the critiques "the bridge crew are underdeveloped" and "Character X should be main cast" are pet peeves of mine. And trust me, it goes back way further than your observation about Rhys. I'm talking Season One.
So critique away, but do expect a response or challenge. This is after all a discussion board.

 

[cooleddie74]

Hell, I've been a repeated critic of DSC in this forum. It's my least favorite live action Star Trek series by a mile.

 

[Tuskin38]

What are you talking about? The backlash occured after Culber was killed, and that's when the producers were saying 'he was always planned to come back'.

They were already planning to bring him back before the episode aired. They discussed it with GLAAD when they were making the episode.

 

[SJGardner]

I'm just astonished at how quickly one can go from "I find this minor character intriguing, I wish I saw more of them" to outright claiming that the lack of focus on them is a sign of incompetence on the writers' part. I find it very hard to believe it doesn't come from a place of disliking the actual main characters when the gist is usually that the show is focusing on Character X and Y at the expense of (allegedly) more interesting ones. Even Jake Sisko wasn't accused of stealing Garak's spotlight, even though Andrew Robinson specifically refused the offer to be elevated to the main cast in Season 7 because he knew it would lead to Cirroc Lofton being sidelined.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What are you talking about? The backlash occured after Culber was killed, and that's when the producers were saying 'he was always planned to come back'.

I think he said that Culber was never permanently dead, the proof being Cruz's statement that he was coming back in an interview filmed before the episode aired. Of course the producers weren't going to reveal Culber was coming back. They wanted that to be a surprise. But the backlashed forced them to show their hand.

 

[Cr0sis21]

I'm just astonished at how quickly one can go from "I find this minor character intriguing, I wish I saw more of them" to outright claiming that the lack of focus on them is a sign of incompetence on the writers' part. I find it very hard to believe it doesn't come from a place of disliking the actual main characters when the gist is usually that the show is focusing on Character X and Y at the expense of (allegedly) more interesting ones. Even Jake Sisko wasn't accused of stealing Garak's spotlight, even though Andrew Robinson specifically refused the offer to be elevated to the main cast in Season 7 because he knew it would lead to Cirroc Lofton being sidelined.

Andrew Robinson is a saint. And everyone loved Cirroc on that set.
My biggest complaint, as I've said, is that a character like Detmer SHOULD have been elevated to main cast, instead of creating someone new for it in the person of Adira, who has been a total waste of a character. THAT is a lack of competence on the part of the writers.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Andrew Robinson is a saint. And everyone loved Cirroc on that set.
My biggest complaint, as I've said, is that a character like Detmer SHOULD have been elevated to main cast, instead of creating someone new for it in the person of Adira, who has been a total waste of a character. THAT is a lack of competence on the part of the writers.

Again I ask why? What about Detmer's character and Coutt's performance has earned this? I'm not seeing this. She's a competent actress but no "spark".
What part would Detmer play in the storylines of Season three? Not Adira's part, that's for sure.

 

[SJGardner]

Andrew Robinson is a saint. And everyone loved Cirroc on that set.
My biggest complaint, as I've said, is that a character like Detmer SHOULD have been elevated to main cast, instead of creating someone new for it in the person of Adira, who has been a total waste of a character. THAT is a lack of competence on the part of the writers.

That is not for us to decide. Garak could've been made into a main character instead of adding a new Dax, but the showrunners decided otherwise. Even if Adira turned out to be a wasted opportunity, that doesn't mean they had no right to be created in the first place, and especially nothing dictates that Keyla or any or the other existing secondary characters be elevated into the main cast in their place other than your own existing interest in them. There's no binding law of storytelling that requires telling more stories about them.

 

[UssGlenn]

She's a competent actress but no "spark".

you can't make a spark if the writers don't give you flint and steel. Doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to if they did.

 

[Nerys Myk]

you can't make a spark if the writers don't give you flint and steel. Doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to if they did.

I disagree. Some actors rise above the material and that's the spark the writers need to give them more. I think Meany is an example of this. He went from nameless extra to reoccurring guest to main character. De Kelley went from closing credits to opening credits as well.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I disagree. Some actors rise above the material and that's the spark the writers need to give them more. I think Meany is examples of this. He went from nameless extra to reoccurring guest to main character. De Kelley went from closing credits to opening credits as well.

ETA: IIRC, Cruz went from co-starring closer to Main Character. So it can happen on DISCO.