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"Star Trek: Picard" Scores at Saturn Awards!

So, it's a Star Trek vs. Star Wars thing.

Same thing I said before applies. When Andor's in its final season, I'm sure they'll give it all kinds of awards.
 
I don't care who wins what.

I ask what it does and how it helps?

Because I don't understand these things. Call me dim, but the awards feel very arbitrary to me...:shrug:

And, I don't care if SNW, Discovery, or Andor all win them. I'd ask the same question. Will I feel more entertained now when I watch them?:shrug:
Look, I am biased in being both one of the board's top Terry Matalas fans and SNW Haters... but... I'm glad to see the PS3 team get some recognition, and anything to further help the case for Legacy...

Matalas has joked that producing season 3 took 30 years off his life and made him put on 30 pounds. He effectively had 1/4th the budget per episode than SNW did. He successfully got Patrick Stewart to sign off on letting the TNG cast come back, then got all the TNG cast to agree to actually return. He caught lightening in a bottle.

I think screaming "nostalgia" as a criticism of PIC season 3 just comes off as really dumb.

You mean the series that from the outset was based around a legacy character from a TV show that was on the air 30 years ago, in a season that was explicitly marketed as a reunion of characters from the old show, had some nostalgia? SHOCKING!

There's a lot of things that do nostalgia and do it badly. This wasn't that. They could of put them on the Enterprise-D in episode 2 and reunited all of them in a hacky way. They didn't do that, and I thought it did what it set out to do very well.
Back when it was airing, there were two major groups in opposition to PS3

The first was the Doomcock crowd. No matter if Gene Roddenberry himself wrote it from beyond the grave, all you're doing by supporting it is enabling Kurtzman.

The second was the "the Berman era fans like PS3 so I won't like it" crowd.

I mean, I can see why DISCOVERY and SNW would appeal to a segment of the fanbase. Can't others see why TNG fans would be so happy to finally get a do over of NEM and have things end on a much better note?

Aside from some Easter Eggs, the only real ok you've got me on the nostalgia bit is the E-D. But there was an overwhelmingly positive reaction to that one. I never thought I wanted to see the E-D back. But it was a cool thing to see to bring the TNG era full circle.

And of course, SNW is completely free of nostalgia after all...
 
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No. It's a quality vs. lesser quality thing. That it's Star Trek and Star Wars is beside the point.
Upfront, I'm not a Star Wars fan. But, I watched the trailer for Andor. It looks good. I can tell it's probably better than The Mandalorian (from what I know about The Mandalorian, I haven't seen that one either). But it doesn't look "Sooooo much better!" I stand by what I say, it'll probably win a bunch at some point.

I've got a feeling if SNW won the Best Series Award, you'd still think it should've gone to Andor, but you wouldn't exactly be complaining either.

Star Wars has won a ton over the decades. I think it can handle taking a backseat at least once.
 
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The second was the "the Berman era fans like PS3 so I won't like it" crowd.

I mean, I can see why DISCOVERY and SNW would appeal to a segment of the fanbase. Can't others see why TNG fans would be so happy to finally get a do over of NEM and have things end on a much better note?
I definitely have sensed that. I think that, since one of the things Picard season 3 is usually lauded for by the "wrong people" is fidelity to the Berman era and everything that came before it, they take praise and adulation for Picard season 3 as a tacit criticism of Discovery and Strange New Worlds. And I feel like that's where a lot of the resistance to Legacy comes from too. That if Matalas is allowed to take Star Trek in that direction they fear it will validate the criticisms people have had of both shows, and the "reimagining" of Star Trek that DSC and SNW have done will be less likely in the future.
Aside from some Easter Eggs, the only real ok you've got me on the nostalgia bit is the E-D. But there was an overwhelmingly positive reaction to that one. I never thought I wanted to see the E-D back. But it was a cool thing to see to bring the TNG era full circle.

And of course, SNW is completely free of nostalgia after all...
I thought Red Letter Media's review of Picard season 3 made a great point that the season not only tries to course correct seasons 1 and 2 of Picard. It also is attempting to correct some of the choices made for the TNG movies. The most obvious way that's seen is Data, and having to find a way to bring him back that threads the needle of everything that's been done since Nemesis.
 
I definitely have sensed that. I think that, since one of the things Picard season 3 is usually lauded for by the "wrong people" is fidelity to the Berman era and everything that came before it, they take praise and adulation for Picard season 3 as a tacit criticism of Discovery and Strange New Worlds. And I feel like that's where a lot of the resistance to Legacy comes from too. That if Matalas is allowed to take Star Trek in that direction they fear it will validate the criticisms people have had of both shows, and the "reimagining" of Star Trek that DSC and SNW have done will be less likely in the future.
Yup. I had to deal with that when someone, I won't say who, hit me with, "I'm surprised YOU like Picard Season 3 so much!" Well, I was a fan of the TOS Movies long before New Trek existed AND I've had issues with every TNG Movie except for First Contact long before then as well. So I've wanted something like this for a long time. Plus, yes, I did watch TNG every day for a while in the '90s. Most of us did. I wasn't about to let some stupid "my side versus your side!" thing on the internet dictate what I'll like.
 
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I've got a feeling if SNW won the Best Series Award, you'd still think it should've gone to Andor, but you wouldn't exactly be complaining either.

I'll say that on a personal level, I do believe SNW to be more deserving of recognition over Picard, but that's my own personal bias.

Had SNW won, I'd still disagree with the decision. While I actually like SNW more than Andor, due to SNW appealing to just about everything I love about Trek, I can still recognize that Andor is a superior show. From the acting, writing, visual effects, editing, music, etc.

It's a better show.

That said, you're probably right in that I wouldn't be as vocal. Because I wouldn't have to be. Had SNW won, there would be conversations about why it should or shouldn't have won, but in the end.... no one would really care because it's the Saturn awards.

One of the reasons this has become a bit of an issue for myself is that once again, this has become a catalyst for the Cult of Matalas, which is now using this as proof of Picard season 3 being second coming of Trek. The show was fine. It had it's moments. But second coming? Nah.

This notion that Trek is broken and only Terry Matalas can fix it is something I just cannot abide.
 
The weirdest conclusion I'm seeing is that if you liked PIC more than SNW, you must have hated SNW. One can be better than the other without that other being crap :D :shrug:

Anyway, here's the detailed result counting all votes (popular instead of EC I guess :D):
PIC S3: 8.4, 8.0, 8.8, 9.0, 9.0, 8.7, 7.9, 8.4, 8.7, 8.9 => Average: 8.58
SNW S2: 7.7, 8.8, 8.1, 7.5, 8.3, 7.9, 9.1, 8.7, 7.8, 8.5 => Average: 8.25

No matter how you look at it, on this TrekBBS as of now, PIC wins too. ;)
All of this speaks to the idea of the Silent Majority. People who are satisfied are less likely to say something than those who aren't.
 
I definitely have sensed that. I think that, since one of the things Picard season 3 is usually lauded for by the "wrong people" is fidelity to the Berman era and everything that came before it, they take praise and adulation for Picard season 3 as a tacit criticism of Discovery and Strange New Worlds. And I feel like that's where a lot of the resistance to Legacy comes from too. That if Matalas is allowed to take Star Trek in that direction they fear it will validate the criticisms people have had of both shows, and the "reimagining" of Star Trek that DSC and SNW have done will be less likely in the future.
Star Trek during the Berman era had the mandate to be a 4 Quadrant show (in the entertainment industry sense, although I'm sure something could be made of DS9 having the Gamma Quadrant, VGR the Delta Quadrant, and DS9 being able to expand into the Alpha and Beta Quadrants when TNG was finished...). Yes, DS9 was the "spare"... given greater latitude to be the second show on the air while the respective primary series was ship based and more episodic. But they all targeted the same broad viewership, just with different structural constraints (especially the additional layer of UPN interference for VGR and ENT, and film studio and actor interference on the TNG film side).

I know one poster here in particular decries populism, but the Abramsverse films definitely aimed to be incredibly populist to maximize the general audience. Whereas the Kurtzman period of NuTrek, despite much larger per episode budgets, has sought to make different series for different audience segments. Offer "different flavors of Star Trek" as it were, as Terry Matalas put it in that I can't believe that happened YouTube live interview. PS3 demonstrated that there was an large albeit underserved audience segment (which in theory PS1/PS2 were supposed to cover, but that's a whole other debate...). So if we're doing proportional representation instead of majoritarianism, it makes sense to serve the fanbase.. proportionally.

I thought Red Letter Media's review of Picard season 3 made a great point that the season not only tries to course correct seasons 1 and 2 of Picard. It also is attempting to correct some of the choices made for the TNG movies. The most obvious way that's seen is Data, and having to find a way to bring him back that threads the needle of everything that's been done since Nemesis.
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Yup. I had to deal with that when someone, I won't say who, hit me with, "I'm surprised YOU like Picard Season 3 so much!" Well, I was a fan of the TOS Movies long before New Trek existed AND I've had issues with every TNG Movie except for First Contact long before then as well. So I've wanted something like this for a long time. Plus, yes, I did watch TNG every day for a while in the '90s. Most of us did. I wasn't about to let some stupid "my side versus your side!" thing on the internet dictate what I'll like.
Crazy that FC likely had the least amount of studio or actor interference of the four TNG films. People like to blame Rick Berman and Brannon Braga for everything, but the suits and actors ultimately did in that era. PS3 finally allowed the "Berman era" to evolve naturally into the serialized streaming era without full scale revisionism.

But it's not like PS3 didn't have its own structural constraints... the strict movie spread across ten episodes form of serialization yet being episodic season to season and obligatory mystery box, but despite that it works.
 
Cult ... hahaha .... no, Terry Trek is an enthralling cultural phenomenon that is well on its way to solidifying a place on the Mount Olympus of Grand Science Fantasy Entertainments!

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I'll take the Cult of Matalas and raise you the Cult of SNW... In some cases rather seems like projection...
Except no one has said, beyond jokingly, that Akiva Goldsman or Henry Alonso Myers should be elevated to sainthood.

Most can appreciate that they're doing a great job with SNW, without insulting all the other shows and showrunners.

That's the problem with the Terry Cult. They want him placed in charge of everything. They insist that what he made is the only real Star Trek made in recent years. They insist that they're superior.

It's pure arrogance.
 
Except no one has said, beyond jokingly, that Akiva Goldsman or Henry Alonso Myers should be elevated to sainthood.

Most can appreciate that they're doing a great job with SNW, without insulting all the other shows and showrunners.

That's the problem with the Terry Cult. They want him placed in charge of everything. They insist that what he made is the only real Star Trek made in recent years. They insist that they're superior.

It's arrogance.
Some of It's the braying of the self-perceived aggrieved seeking redress from a world that does not, in fact, owe them something.

Youtube is overrun with it.
 
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