Poll Rank the Picard Seasons

[GeorgeKirk]

I was curious as to how much weight affection for TNG had for you in your opinion. I am not looking for an objective reality but to learn from your subjective experience.

I think it's important for the people who make a movie, TV show, book, or whatever to actually like and understand the source material, and if they don't then the work isn't very enjoyable. For example, the people who made Nemesis clearly didn't like TNG and were cynically trying to rip off The Wrath of Khan; the audience sensed that and the movie bombed.

 

[fireproof78]

I think it's important for the people who make a movie, TV show, book, or whatever to actually like and understand the source material, and if they don't then the work isn't very enjoyable. For example, the people who made Nemesis clearly didn't like TNG and were cynically trying to rip off The Wrath of Khan; the audience sensed that and the movie bombed.

So people who don't like it can't make good stories?

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

For example, the people who made Nemesis clearly didn't like TNG and were cynically trying to rip off The Wrath of Khan; the audience sensed that and the movie bombed.

The movie bombed before anyone could see what they were ripping off. Nobody went opening weekend.
And really, from everything we know of the script writer, Jonathan Logan, he was a huge fan.

 

[thribs]

3,2,1
I say that since season 2 did have two good episodes.

 

[Dukhat]

It's extremely hard for me to have an objective opinion about the seasons of Star Trek: Picard, because I pretty much felt that PIC as a whole was complete and utter shit, and was nothing more than a glorified vanity project for Stewart and Spiner, just like every single TNG film was. It would be easier for me to pick out random things from each season that I actually liked, rather than judge the seasons as a whole.

Season 1: I liked the design of the Wallenberg class transports; the subtle callback to the AGT communicators; Cristobal Rios and his holograms; Elnor; the ultimate fate of B4; seeing Chateau Picard; the legacy of Picard's Irumodic syndrome; Data's much better death than what he had in Nemesis, and Picard dying. Everything else was crap.

Season 2: I loved the new Stargazer, and that Rios was its captain; I liked the new diversity in starships although I didn't like the choices of the STO designs they used; I enjoyed seeing John DeLancie again although his portrayal of Q left me wanting; and I liked seeing James Callis but again I was not thrilled about the character he was portraying nor the retcon about his relationship with his wife. Everything else was crap.

Season 3: I enjoyed the return of the TNG cast, despite most of them acting out of character; I thought Shaw was a good character despite some flaws; I liked Geordi's daughters; and I really liked Ed Speleers' performance despite him being much older than the age Jack Crusher should have been. I liked seeing the Enterprise-A, the Voyager, the Defiant, the NX-01 refit and a TOS Connie in the Starfleet Museum, although all the other ships there were disappointing. Everything else was crap.

 

[GeorgeKirk]

So people who don't like it can't make good stories?

I think that if people have a contempt for the source material, and view it cynically as an exercise in scamming money from idiots, then it's reflected in the work.

 

[GeorgeKirk]

The movie bombed before anyone could see what they were ripping off. Nobody went opening weekend.
And really, from everything we know of the script writer, Jonathan Logan, he was a huge fan.

John Logan was a fan, but nobody else was. Director Stuart Baird didn't even know what Star Trek was and couldn't even be bothered to learn the actors' names (he kept calling Levar Burton "Laverne") Rick Berman never understood Star Trek and was the primary force behind trying to copy The Wrath of Khan since that was a popular one. And Patrick Stewart never liked his character and was the primary force behind trying to essentially turn him into a different character. Then there are the studio executives who insisted that a lot of nice character moments be edited out to get the runtime down.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Rick Berman never understood Star Trek...

I don't even know how to respond to this claim.

 

[Lord Garth]

Other than Data dying and backing himself up in B-4, I don't see any similarity between TWOK and Nemesis. People have been saying this on here for over 20 years, but one similarity doesn't make the two movies alike.

"Revenge!" isn't enough. That's been a concept in movies since long, long, long before TWOK even existed. And Shinzon gets his revenge right at the beginning of the movie when he dissolves the Romulan Senate. After that, he's not motivated by revenge. He just wants to conquer. Whereas in TWOK, Khan's revenge is never satisfied, since he can't get Kirk, and he has no further goals because that revenge has completely blinded him.

"Time marching on!" Technically true, but still not the same. In NEM, the crew are going their separate ways. In TWOK, everyone except Chekov is on the Enterprise, he finds his way back, and it doesn't look like anyone's going their separate ways.

 

[Anduinel]

PIC S1
PIC S3
Poland
Czechoslovakia
Holland
Venezuela
Africa
Beirut
The Hanging Gardens of Babylon
PIC S2

 

[fireproof78]

I was told there wouldn't be any geography.

 

[DonIago]

PIC S1
PIC S3
Poland
Czechoslovakia
Holland
Venezuela
Africa
Beirut
The Hanging Gardens of Babylon
PIC S2

Why are you bringing Babylon 5 into this?

 

[FederationHistorian]

Other than Data dying and backing himself up in B-4, I don't see any similarity between TWOK and Nemesis. People have been saying this on here for over 20 years, but one similarity doesn't make the two movies alike.

"Revenge!" isn't enough. That's been a concept in movies since long, long, long before TWOK even existed. And Shinzon gets his revenge right at the beginning of the movie when he dissolves the Romulan Senate. After that, he's not motivated by revenge. He just wants to conquer. Whereas in TWOK, Khan's revenge is never satisfied, since he can't get Kirk, and he has no further goals because that revenge has completely blinded him.

"Time marching on!" Technically true, but still not the same. In NEM, the crew are going their separate ways. In TWOK, everyone except Chekov is on the Enterprise, he finds his way back, and it doesn't look like anyone's going their separate ways.

I thought the comparisons were clear.

The film starts out the crew in a different phase in their lives. They then encounter the antagonist, who resided on a dead world for a significant period of time. The antagonist mentally tortures someone who’s a part of the Enterprise crew. It then leads to a battle in a nebula, where the crew of the Enterprise takes on the antagonist, who's leading his band of rebels and his out for revenge against the captain of the Enterprise. A battle that sees the Enterprise badly damaged, and its science officer make the ultimate sacrifice to save the crew - and his friends - from certain death at the hands of the antagonist's ship.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

The only thing I can give you is Spock and Data's sacrifice at the end. The rest aren't even close.

Example, can you describe the start of Wrath of Khan as "Villain who comes from a mining planet, leads a rebellion and takes over a a galactic empire. We then cut to our heroes who are celebrating the wedding of their friends and fellow officers as main crew members happily prepare to move on and begin a separate and new chapter in their lives".

It's actually literally the opposite. In Khan, the hero is depressed about getting older, avoiding celebrations of any kind while the villain has a stolen ship, a few friends, and is now hunting his mortal enemy to destroy.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think I enjoyed each season almost equally. I loved that each season had a different flavour. Brave to do that. Each episode was enthusiastically awaited by everyone in my household. I would have perhaps tweaked a few things in Season Two, but still loved it.

 

[Tosk]

The only thing I can give you is Spock and Data's sacrifice at the end. The rest aren't even close.

Example, can you describe the start of Wrath of Khan as "Villain who comes from a mining planet, leads a rebellion and takes over a a galactic empire. We then cut to our heroes who are celebrating the wedding of their friends and fellow officers as main crew members happily prepare to move on and begin a separate and new chapter in their lives".

It's actually literally the opposite. In Khan, the hero is depressed about getting older, avoiding celebrations of any kind while the villain has a stolen ship, a few friends, and is now hunting his mortal enemy to destroy.

It all depends on how broad you make the comparisons. The more specific you get, that harder it is to make two movies sound alike.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

It all depends on how broad you make the comparisons. The more specific you get, that harder it is to make two movies sound alike.

And the more general you make it, the easier it is to make 2 movies that aren't similar sound alike.
Stories are in the details. Not the generalities.

 

[Tosk]

I agree.

Though there are some exceptions. The Fast and the Furious is still just Point Break with cars instead of surfboards.

 

[Mudd]

Laris > Beverly

 

[DonIago]

While Riker-Troi worked out better than I thought it might, I was over that and Picard-Crusher long before PIC was even a concept. Worf-Troi was more interesting to me and I'd still like them to explore canonically why that failed.