Spoilers The Marvels grade and discussion
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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I enjoyed the hell out of this and truly have no idea why it got so many bad reviews. It wasn't perfect, but our 3 leads knocked it out of park.
at the kittens! I haven't laughed so hard in *ages*!
I was extremely pleased with that.
NO! That actually bothered me.
You can go in semi-cold. Or wear a sweater.
Option three
Yes, that is exactly the image in my head that, I was trying to describe/rationalize, and I did it perfectly.
But Marvel/Disney structured the MCU to be so joined at the hip that a new viewer could not drop in anywhere and understand anything. For example, there's no way fresh eyes could come into the MCU with Captain America: Civil War and understand it with the many plot set-ups and direct references to other films, such as:
- Ross naming all of the Avengers' previous disasters, which would inspire a "er--they did what...when? How did that happen, and why?" to a newbie.
- The tense relationship between Rogers and Stark
- Why Rogers was trying to save some guy named Bucky (and you'd get the same reaction).
- Moreover, Ross asking if anyone knew the location of Banner and Thor, which would draw a blank for a new viewer (who we can assume is not eyebrow deep in Marvel characters / lore) and without watching the older films to know not only who they are, or why Ross is considering them part of the establishment of the Accords.
That's the issue with the MCU; its a series so laden with references / plot threads crossing into other films & TV / Easter Eggs, that few of its entries could play out as an independent story for a newbie to just start independent of needing to watch the other productions. IOW, the opposite of one book has a natural beginning and end. Start another.
You added:
I disagree; Since the Silver Age, the "Big Two" (DC & Marvel, obviously) sped up the world building / continuity to the point that certain stories would begin in one title, and end in another; Marvel ramped up this practice with their events such as the Avengers / Defenders crossover in the early 70s (among many of that kind with most of the publisher's A through C-list characters), Doctor Strange / The Tomb of Dracula later that decade, and by the 80s, with event comics such as Secret Wars, the plot / event--or effect from the event was tightly interwoven in numerous titles, so there was no way one could simply read another title, see direct plots and/or references from Secret Wars and understand how that impacted Random Superhero without having read the maxi-series. The MCU operates in the same manner, hence the increasing criticism of this franchise model (referred to in the Variety article, and discussed here).
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I think we shouldn't assume everyone on earth is an idiot.
A movie or comic references a plot point in another movie or comic? My generation says "Okay, cool. Something happened before this, I'm not quite sure on the exact details but we can move on with this story and I'll either be interested in going back to fill in the blanks (how every person in my generation got into comics) or I'll just move forward."
George Lucas built A New Hope on this very premise in 1977, littered his script with backstory we didn't see, and we were fine.
A movie or comic references a plot point in another movie or comic? My generation says "Okay, cool. Something happened before this, I'm not quite sure on the exact details but we can move on with this story and I'll either be interested in going back to fill in the blanks (how every person in my generation got into comics) or I'll just move forward."
George Lucas built A New Hope on this very premise in 1977, littered his script with backstory we didn't see, and we were fine.
Star Wars--the original film--was not part of an existing film series known for being interconnected, filled with Easter Eggs and references that past and future plots depended on to tell its story. Kenobi mentioning the Clone Wars, or Owen saying he was afraid Luke was like his father were not the plot the film was built on at all. Civil War--the 13th film in the MCU release order--like so many MCU films and TV series--overflowed with so many major, specific plots created in previous films which would not be understood unless a viewer watched those entries.
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Civil War is most definitely a film that requires some backstory to be fully understood.
The Marvels? Not so much.
Knowing that these characters had previous outings is enough.
You accept the small expositional recaps they give at the beginning and enjoy the fun romp through space with body swapping shenanigans from there.
Heck, we didn’t just get expositions, we got full on previously on clips in the form of Kamala’s animated comic and Carol’s memory recovery.
The Marvels? Not so much.
Knowing that these characters had previous outings is enough.
You accept the small expositional recaps they give at the beginning and enjoy the fun romp through space with body swapping shenanigans from there.
Heck, we didn’t just get expositions, we got full on previously on clips in the form of Kamala’s animated comic and Carol’s memory recovery.
What's the difference between a backstory that was filmed and a backstory that wasn't? For the movie you're watching, absolutely nothing when written properly.
You can argue Civil War wasn't done properly (I think your examples given, though, save maybe the Bucky one, assume the viewer has never been told any type story in their life and knows how they work), but almost all of the post Endgame works don't even come close to that level of background detail needed.
As mentioned above, especially The Marvels.
Stephen King Calls Out Critics For 'Gloating' Over 'The Marvels'' Disappointing Opening Weekend
The horror icon noted on X that he 'doesn't care for' Marvel movies, but he didn't understand why people would 'gloat over failure'—and fans had some ideas.
Yep, what exactly makes someone gloat if a movie does poorly at the box office?
I mean, at most I personally could be indifferent (because, well, I'm not a shareholder of a studio), maybe a little disappointed if I like someone who worked there.
But gloating? What does someone who "gloat" gain from a film which didn't do well at the box office? If people are only happy by other people's misfortunes perhaps they should ask themselves some serious questions about their own priorities. Because I don't believe that the lost proceeds of a film go to charity.
The horror icon noted on X that he 'doesn't care for' Marvel movies, but he didn't understand why people would 'gloat over failure'—and fans had some ideas.
Yep, what exactly makes someone gloat if a movie does poorly at the box office?
I mean, at most I personally could be indifferent (because, well, I'm not a shareholder of a studio), maybe a little disappointed if I like someone who worked there.
But gloating? What does someone who "gloat" gain from a film which didn't do well at the box office? If people are only happy by other people's misfortunes perhaps they should ask themselves some serious questions about their own priorities. Because I don't believe that the lost proceeds of a film go to charity.
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They get a sense of superiority as their beliefs are validated.
Questioning their priorities requires a sense of self-reflection few humans will engage in.
As a demonstration, why is it so important to defend the Marvels or the MCU? If it is successful would it not stand on its own?
Personally, I "defend" them only when I see statements that are rooted in prejudice, such as "go woke, go broke". If someone simply says they didn't like a movie, I shrug and move on.
Curious.
Does gloating fall under this criteria too? And I ask this because if you find what drives you to defend it as a personal value, then understanding why someone might find the lack of success a happy event may become easier.
And no, it doesn't have to be "anti woke" or whatever. It can be a genuine disinterested, or disappointment.
It is interesting to me to see when people should reexamine their priorities.
Related to the outrage brigade, something I've been thinking about is why they care so much about gender, but not race.
No one gave Black Panther any shit. No one gave Marvel shit for setting Sam up as the next Captain America. No one claims that Marvel is no longer making "stories for us." as a result.
Is it because black male action leads are not threatening to the internalized ideas of masculine power these dudes have?
Like, if they had decided to make Steven Strange - a character who fights with his mind, rather than his body - black, do you think we would have seen more pushback from the troll contingent?
No one gave Black Panther any shit. No one gave Marvel shit for setting Sam up as the next Captain America. No one claims that Marvel is no longer making "stories for us." as a result.
Is it because black male action leads are not threatening to the internalized ideas of masculine power these dudes have?
Like, if they had decided to make Steven Strange - a character who fights with his mind, rather than his body - black, do you think we would have seen more pushback from the troll contingent?
Saw it. Liked it! I don't understand all the hate for it online.
Race swapping a main character always gives pushback, that would definitely be a thing.
However, if (to kind of match your examples a little closer) the already cast Baron Mordo were to turn good and pick up the Dr. Strange mantle if Cumberbatch were to leave, I think people would be cool with that.
The hate is almost exclusively from those who haven't watched it.
Or people who are convinced that its BO failure means that Marvel Studios has to - or is going to - 'burn everything down'.
Sour grapes seems like an appropriate descriptor here.
I haven't seen it so it must be bad.
I haven't seen it so it must be bad.
I'm not sure, it's still not that long since Boyega got shit. "A black stormtrooper, what a ridiculous idea." And of course it was only a few years later that the same people were complaining about Imperials all being white.
I guarantee as well that if (or more likely when) Eon hire a Bond of Colour, certain people online will be apoplectic.
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