Spoilers AHSOKA series [Spoiler Discussion]

[Jedi Marso]

Rewatching the episodes and there's some subtext about the state of Sabine mental/emotional stale and her relationship to Ahsoka that's suddenly jumping out at me.

First off; Sabine's clearly not living her own life, but instead attempting to inhabit the empty husk of Ezra's. She's living at his old squat when she could just as easily have gotten a nice city apartment or an isolated farmstead out on the plains if she wanted. She's surrounded by his old stuff, and even wearing his colours. This feels like she's punishing herself.

For Rebel's fans, it's pretty evident that Sabine is in some sort of slump. She clearly hasn't 'moved on' from the events of the Rebels finale. Until she cuts her hair, anyway. That scene was somewhat reminiscent of Kanan's actions before he sacrificed himself to save Hera and the others.

 

[Reverend]

What comic is this from? Just curious- I wasn't aware of any 'Rebels' appearances in the comics, but I haven't really been keeping up since the license went back to Marvel.

She's made a bunch of appearances in the comics (outside of the Kanan ones, obviously) mostly in the main book, plus I think an arc of Aphra. If you want to check the specific issues, scrolling through the list of her appearances on Wookieepedia is usually a good start.

 

[matthunter]

Thank you. It still doesn't change my point that current bandages are not made from plaster, technically inaccurate. Like calling a person trained as a Jedi a "Jedi Knight" even though they were not fully trained. The tendency to be very broad in our use of words is very human.

Cough, the Jedi Council promoted Ashoka to Knight. She just didn't accept the title.

 

[Set Harth]

In the Legends EU, it eventually became apparent that Thrawn planned to use the empire as a hammer against the nail of a threat emerging from the Unknown Regions. The good guys gummed that all up.

But isn't that what all bad guys say? "You have to let me do this to you, because if you don't what will happen to you will be worse."

 

[fireproof78]

Cough, the Jedi Council promoted Ashoka to Knight. She just didn't accept the title.

Thank you. Didn't remember that.

For Rebel's fans, it's pretty evident that Sabine is in some sort of slump.

Forr this non Rebels fan it still feels painfully obvious.

It's almost like she's a hero on some sort of journey...

But isn't that what all bad guys say? "You have to let me do this to you, because if you don't what will happen to you will be worse."

"You don't know what I did for humanity..." the Dark Lord in another series.

 

[Gaith]

Indeed I like the idea that Luke's temple wasn't the only Jedi school in operation and that there were several scattered all across the galaxy. So when Kylo went off the deep-end and Luke's burned, all the others took all of their Initiates and Padawans into hiding. Something Ahsoka would have been very practiced at, and prepared for.

When Luke and Leia were still alive?? Leaving Kylo, Snoke, and the Knights of Ren to build another Death Star, leading to all the ST hoopla?? What is even the point of training and maintaining a Jedi Order(s) if they just go into hiding the moment anything goes wrong?!

(And remind me why the heck Obi-Wan and Yoda split up to confront Anakin and Palpatine separately, instead of ganging up on them two-on-one in two separate encounters??)

 

[Reverend]

When Luke and Leia were still alive?? Leaving Kylo, Snoke, and the Knights of Ren to build another Death Star, leading to all the ST hoopla?? What is even the point of training and maintaining a Jedi Order(s) if they just go into hiding the moment anything goes wrong?!

I think you overlooked the part where I specifically said "Initiates and Padawans". Or are you suggesting they should have stormed Exogol with an army of three to thirteen year olds?
Also: try to calm down. Breath a little.

 

[fireproof78]

And remind me why the heck Obi-Wan and Yoda split up to confront Anakin and Palpatine separately, instead of ganging up on them two-on-one in two separate encounters??)

Something Something if we're separate one might succeed while the other fails or something.

Yeah, it's frustrating.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think there's an Occam's Razor answer that the Empire could have reconquered Lothal very easily but the Emperor had it put on his Death Star list.

Because unlike Lothal, the Mandalorians were a symbol.

Why would the Emperor even care about Lothal? It would appear that the Emperor's primary interest in the planet was because of the Jedi Temple, which the Empire lifted completely off of the planet.* Once the temple was gone, why would the Emperor even care about the planet?

(* - and I presume that the special but unknown interest hinted-at in Rebels that the Empire had in Lothal, that was never explicitly stated out loud, was precisely the temple)

 

[Tuskin38]

You can spot what appears to be Jacen sitting in the Co-pilot seat in one of the trailers.

 

[Reverend]

Something Something if we're separate one might succeed while the other fails or something.

Yeah, it's frustrating.

It seems like a fairly sensible approach to dealing with Sith to me; if you only attack them one at a time, the other will likely flee and go to ground, or at the very least be alerted to any coming attack. If you can kill them both simultaneously, then they can neither aid each other, or escape with forewarning (ideally), in which case: job done!

The only thing that went wrong with that plan is that Yoda failed (though it was a near thing.) Had Palpatine been killed, Vader would have eventually expired in that lava pit without Sidious coming to rescue him.

Also, we already saw how effective a group of Jedi Masters were against Palpatine. That was literally what they tried first, so I doubt Obi-Wan & Yoda together would have been more effective than just one or the other on their own.

 

[fireproof78]

It seems like a fairly sensible approach to dealing with Sith to me; if you only attack them one at a time, the other will likely flee and go to ground, or at the very least be alerted to any coming attack. If you can kill them both simultaneously, then job done!

Except, Palpatine is the more dangerous one. The biggest support that Obi-Wan and Yoda had was surprise. Palpatine expected, anticipated, and reveled in Mace's attempt. The two working in conjuction would have something of a drop this time.

I'm not saying it's totally unreasonable but I think it's more designed around plot driven contrivance. It smacks of "we have to get the pieces to this point on the board."

 

[Charles Phipps]

Why would the Emperor even care about Lothal? It would appear that the Emperor's primary interest in the planet was because of the Jedi Temple, which the Empire lifted completely off of the planet.* Once the temple was gone, why would the Emperor even care about the planet?

(* - and I presume that the special but unknown interest hinted-at in Rebels that the Empire had in Lothal, that was never explicitly stated out loud, was precisely the temple)

I feel like you don't really need to explain why a galactic tyrant is upset about one of their highest ranking military leaders being defeated by farmers and rebels in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Crewman6]

(And remind me why the heck Obi-Wan and Yoda split up to confront Anakin and Palpatine separately, instead of ganging up on them two-on-one in two separate encounters??)

Particularly when you factor in all the other surviving Jedi that are canon, like Cal Kestis, Kanan, Ahsoka, etc.

Seems like they could have gotten at least a half-dozen truly skilled Jedi to bum rush the Sith and party over.

Sure, Palps made mince-meat of the Jedi Council that one time, but one-on-one, he and Mace were evenly matched, as were he and Yoda.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I'm not sure Mace and Palpatine were evenly matched. I always figured Palpatine let Mace appear to win right as Anakin was walking through the door. He had to complete the manipulaton, appearing helpless and playing on Anakin's innate sense of fairness and growing mistrust of the Council.

If Anakin hadn't been about to arrive, I think Palpatine would have casually dispatched him. As it was, as soon as Anakin cut off his hand, Palpatine snuffed him like it was nothing.

Even in his fight with Yoda in the senate chamber, Palps appears to be 'playing' to a large degree.

 

[Gaith]

It seems like a fairly sensible approach to dealing with Sith to me; if you only attack them one at a time, the other will likely flee and go to ground

If Obi-Wan and Yoda had defeated Anakin together, causing Palpatine to flee, allowing the surviving Jedi to regroup before hunting him down when they're full rested and prepared... I don't see the problem with that.

I mean, there's reasonable, good-faith fan explanations for plot questions, and then there's bending over backwards to justify every last bit of chaotic, incoherent plotting.

Also, we already saw how effective a group of Jedi Masters were against Palpatine. That was literally what they tried first, so I doubt Obi-Wan & Yoda together would have been more effective than just one or the other on their own.

I tried going on a big, long hike in a hot desert the other day, but I ran out of water, and had to call for help. Guess I'll try again this weekend, but only pack a fourth as much water this time, because the amount I packed the first time wasn't very effective, so I might as well try less next time. Logic!

I think you overlooked the part where I specifically said "Initiates and Padawans". Or are you suggesting they should have stormed Exogol with an army of three to thirteen year olds?

New temples mean new eligibility/age requirements. If there's a number of young adults, or even adults, who can fight, and have been training to fight, then, when galactic peace is at stake... yeah, maybe invite them to fight, even if only as backup. Emergencies call for emergency measures. (And this is pre-ST, before any Jedi knew of Exegol.)

 

[Crewman6]

...

 

[fireproof78]

New temples mean new eligibility/age requirements. If there's a number of young adults, or even adults, who can fight, and have been training to fight, then, when galactic peace is at stake... yeah, maybe invite them to fight, even if only as backup. Emergencies call for emergency measures. (And this is pre-ST, before any Jedi knew of Exegol.)

Luke's job was a rather impossible one, especially with the emphasis on demiliterization by the New Republic resulting in more expectations of the Jedi as a peace keeping force.

Evil was not going to wait for the new government to get its house in order. The New Republic needed a strong presence to keep the peace but that couldn't happen with some measures of military presence.

 

[Crewman6]

I'm not sure Mace and Palpatine were evenly matched. I always figured Palpatine let Mace appear to win right as Anakin was walking through the door. He had to complete the manipulaton, appearing helpless and playing on Anakin's innate sense of fairness and growing mistrust of the Council.

If Anakin hadn't been about to arrive, I think Palpatine would have casually dispatched him. As it was, as soon as Anakin cut off his hand, Palpatine snuffed him like it was nothing.

Even in his fight with Yoda in the senate chamber, Palps appears to be 'playing' to a large degree.

I'm not sure Mace and Palpatine were evenly matched. I always figured Palpatine let Mace appear to win right as Anakin was walking through the door. He had to complete the manipulaton, appearing helpless and playing on Anakin's innate sense of fairness and growing mistrust of the Council.

If Anakin hadn't been about to arrive, I think Palpatine would have casually dispatched him. As it was, as soon as Anakin cut off his hand, Palpatine snuffed him like it was nothing.

Even in his fight with Yoda in the senate chamber, Palps appears to be 'playing' to a large degree.

No. Mace had defeated Palps and would have won if not for the intervention of Anakin.

And, yeah, having Mace's hand (and his lightsaber!) cut off isn't something small. He lost his weapon, which kept Palps from zapping him, and he was in extreme pain.

Besides, even if we don't break down the details of the fight, narratively and dramatically it makes more sense that the Jedi would have won if not for the intervention of Anakin.

That's kind of the point of the story. The good guys could have, should have won. The decision came down entirely to Anakin. It was his choice to turn, to support Palps and, by extension, create the Empire and eliminate the Jedi. That's all on Anakin's shoulders.

If Palps was really in control the whole time, and would have won no matter what Anakin did, the story is meaningless.

 

[Reverend]

Luke's job was a rather impossible one, especially with the emphasis on demiliterization by the New Republic resulting in more expectations of the Jedi as a peace keeping force.

Evil was not going to wait for the new government to get its house in order. The New Republic needed a strong presence to keep the peace but that couldn't happen with some measures of military presence.

I don't think Luke's temple got anywhere near the stage where they could even be considered "an Order", let alone a peace keeping force in any meaningful way. It was just that; a place of learning, not a paramilitary training camp.
Had things not fallen apart, I suspect Luke had no intention of repeating the mistakes of the old Order and just going back into the role as official enforcers for the Senate, even if they got the numbers up to a place where that was even feasible. I can see Rey being intent on much the same too; creating something new, not just trying to recreate the past. Even so; just from a numbers perspective alone it'll take a while to get anywhere near 10,000 knights again to be an effective galaxy-wide force, even if they wanted to be. (I estimate about a century and a half, maybe two given generous conditions, assuming 1 knight padawan per decade, per knight, minus about a 20% failure rate.)

I've sure we'll find out eventually in the upcoming DotJ movie, but I suspect it took generations, if not centuries for the Jedi to get from a handful of monks meditating on mountain tops, to the warrior sorcerers of the Republic.

Of course our view on what the Jedi were is still fairly narrow. All we really have is a glimpse of their failing twilight years, and more recently a sliver of the brief golden age that was the High Republic. It's possible the Order under the Old Republic was quite different, and possibly changed it's role in how it served said Republic many times over the millennia.