Yes, they were. They destroyed the outpost, then lulled the Enterprise there to attack through a false signal ensuring defenses were down.
That's pretty savage in my book.
Your opinion on SNWs Gorn
- Thread starter Rahul
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That's pretty savage in my book.
I don't expect continuity to be flawless either in a new series or in a franchise as old as Star Trek. I couldn't care less about things such as James R to James T Kirk or Vulcanians to Vulcans or even the changes they made in the Trill from TNG to DS9, but this isn't a minor retcon. Pluto TV just had Arena on today. I continue to think that the Gorn being unknown is essential to the story. They could have named the enemy in SNW anything else and that story is unchanged.Why? Again I failed to see this idea that the Star Trek franchise continuity has been so airtight. That hasn't been the case for any Star Trek series from TOS through ENT; and nothing has changed with the new series of streaming Star Trek. It's always interesting to see that anytime they do a minor retcon, the small item being retconned suddenly becomes a major canonical issue for some folks.
Unless there is more than one kind of Gorn, possibly operating some kind of Hegemonic power in deep space.
In what way is it "essential to the story?"
SNW is revising the continuity of Trek as it goes, and thus far it's improving it.
I'm watching Star Trek on Pluto TV as I type this, and also saw TOS S1 Arena on it earlier today. If anything what they've done with the Gorn in SNW so much better explains how the Gorn were able to convincingly fake a live Subspace radio voice conversation between Kirk and the Gorn's fake Commodore Travers; as well as how Gorn were able to so easily attack and destroy the Outpost on Cestus III. And for everyone still stating that somehow the Gorn aren't monsters, I'll counter with the fact that they completely understood the Federation language, were completely aware that there were women and children on Cestus III, and that when the outpost called up to the Gorn and tried to surrender, the Gorn fully understood what was being offered, but decided to totally wipe out the base entirely.
There was no misunderstanding between the Federation and the Gorn. If the Gorn wanted to pursue a diplomatic solution, they definitely had all of the knowledge they needed about the Federation to pursue such a goal. They willfully decided to come in and completely obliterate a Federation Outpost, and further, decided to lure in and ambush the one Federation Starship who was designated by the Federation and Starfleet to patrol that area of space.
Giving all that, the scene in Arena where McCoy and Spock are positing that they could be in the wrong here is ridiculous given the action of the Gorn in this episode to this point. The Gorn made a conscious choice to do what they did to Cestus III and had a mast a wealth of information on the Federation before making the attack.
The situations depicted in Strange New Worlds regarding the Gorn now help that episode make more sense overall than it did before we saw SNW.
If Kirk is aware of what the Gorn did in seasons 1 & 2 of SNW, he kills the Gorn Captain especially considering his friendship with La'an ,which I expect to grow closer in the future. The Gorn were on
Cestus 3 for at least a day which should be plenty of time to manufacture a radio signal.
Given the complete destruction, not to mention the knowledge they had in approaching at space normal speed; I doubt they were able to retrieve any data from the Cestus III colony remains. That knowledge was obtained before the attack. And to date I don't think Kirk really knows about La'an's history with the Gorn. After she let him know about her feelings towards him, and he let her know about his current relationship; it remains to be seen as to whether anything further occurs between them in that regard.
As of now, you're right about La'an, but I'd be shocked if they're not closer in the future. He still kills the Gorn Captain, if he has knowledge of SNW Gorn. It makes sense to observe a possible invader before attacking so their actions regarding Cestus 3 aren't that surprising. The crew's statements forgiving or understanding the attack are surprising given just what happened in the episode shocking if you consider SNW.
The complete destruction of a colony is shocking regardless. The apologetic thought of McCoy is not supported by the episode itself.
Well yeah, it kind of is. McCoy grasps that the Federation may have been unknowingly tresspassing and then Kirk also recognizes it when he refuses to kill the Gorn. As far as the episode is concerned, it's accepted that it's possible were just protecting themselves. There was nothing after Kirk's final realization to suggest otherwise. And since there was no Federation/Gorn war after "Arena" something must have been worked out. Perhaps those diplomats Spock suggested worked something out.
The wholesale destruction of a colony and entrapment of a starship, the "only defense" for the area is not justified by the the idea that they done wrong.
Sorry, it's not.
When I got old enough to think about “messages” in Trek (beyond the very surface ones), I took Kirk’s decision to not kill the Gorn as mostly driven by a refusal to be “entertainment” for the Metrons, especially as the Gorn was now helpless.
In any case, I don’t particularly care if “things line up” in fiction, especially when various bits are decades apart in production. It’s fiction, not history…the latter being my profession, I try not to confuse the two.
In any case, I don’t particularly care if “things line up” in fiction, especially when various bits are decades apart in production. It’s fiction, not history…the latter being my profession, I try not to confuse the two.
I wish the Gorn Spacesuit had been the TOS costume.
No.
Well, the Metron didn't have anything good to say for the Gorn. Certainly there was no suggestion that the Feds and the Gorn would learn to coexist.
You could even argue the opposite - that it makes Kirk's sparing of the Gorn all the more impactful in light of what we know about how the Gorn have operated in the past.
Improving it…that’s debatable. Of course, different strokes for different folks and all that.
Not by human standards, but we don't know how far into "Gorn space" Cestus III was and how far into that space the Enterprise was when they lured them in. This is how the Gorn deals with tresspassers. People deal with tresspassers in a variety of ways here on Earth. I would, at worst, call the police. Other people would haul out their shotguns and shoot. Again, this issue is "best decided by diplomats."
The Metron didn't say much against them either, at least nothing worse than they said about Humans. And there's no suggestion the Gorn and the Federation couldn't co-exist. It was only left as "maybe we can talk. Reach an agreement." It was a hopeful and optimistic ending, but by no means conclusive.
Even if I believe in self defense entrapping more people to do so is not justified.
And I can absoltuely see that point being brought up at the negotiation table. That's one of the things I love about this episode. The bigger conflict isn't resolved and it's left open to further thought and discussion.
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