Rewatching TOS After SNW

[Christopher]

I don't think it will be a twist, just a confirmation of what we have seen already. They are predator monsters when they are young but intelligent technologically advanced lizards when they are adults. This interview with the visual effects supervisor pretty much confirms it:

That's just description. I'm talking about story. I'm talking about how many plots can be generated by the concept, how much potential there is to do different stories instead of just the same "fight the monsters" plot over and over.

Look at what happened with the Borg. Originally, they were described as a species only interested in acquiring technology and not caring about individuals. They were a cosmic-horror concept, something threatening because of its great power and total unawareness of us as it tramples us underfoot. But you can't really do more than one story about fighting an impersonal force of nature, so in the very next story, they changed the concept so suddenly the Borg were interested in one specific individual, Picard. And then they kept making the Borg more and more personal, eventually adding the Queen as a more conventional nemesis. The original idea was so limited that they had to change it to generate more stories.

The problem with SNW's "they're just monsters" approach to the Gorn is that it's boring. It's not giving us anything we haven't been seeing in Alien movies since the 1980s. Sure, we get stories about characters dealing with the trauma of surviving them, or fighting to escape them, but the threat itself is superficial and one-note. It's an exercise in special effects rather than an exercise in worldbuilding or cultural exploration.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think it will be a twist, just a confirmation of what we have seen already. They are predator monsters when they are young but intelligent technologically advanced lizards when they are adults. This interview with the visual effects supervisor pretty much confirms it:
https://trekmovie.com/2023/08/14/in...ervisor-j-alan-scott-on-reimagining-the-gorn/

I sure hope so. It will be nice to put the Gorn to rest after this. It had potential as an experiment, and to expand a species we really didn't know much about, but the Alien style is irritating as fuck. I don't mind them being monsters, but don't be monsters based off the most overblown horror movie in a scifi skin from the 80s.

 

[Mudd]

The problem with SNW's "they're just monsters" approach to the Gorn is that it's boring.

No, it is not.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I like the "slow burn" approach they've taken with the Gorn. We will literally see more of them in season 3. The SXF guy said in an interview.

And we’re going to visually see them next season. But for this one, this is as much as we want to reveal right now. And it needed to be immediate, like “Oh my god, there it is.” That’s what they’ve all been hinting at and hearing stories of and legends of. The audience knows where it’s supposed to be going to be The Original Series Gorn. But it’s nice that we get incremental reveals, much like a horror story.

 

[Grizzlor]

Connecting SNW and TOS is just a bit of fun. And sometimes SNW connections recontextualizes things we saw in TOS, like Chapel/Spock. They’re the same characters in the way the Bronze Age Batman and the Batman of the 90s are the same. Threading them together can cause contradictions, but real people have contradictions - it makes them more real. At the end of the day, though, it’s just silly fun

I like the analogy! Unfortunately for many people, this is a source of frustration.

You're absolutely correct. Seeing people try to reconcile all of this in detail is tiresome. These people fit with the old versions in terms of broad strokes.

Thank you!

 

[mattman8907]

I wonder once we get to 2265 and Kirk's command of the Enterprise how many people from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" aka the Second pilot (Mark Piper, Mitchell, Kelso, Alden, Yeoman Smith) will make the cut or will be replaced with either SNW characters or one of the core 7 will take their place (I.E. replace Piper with McCoy, and Alden with Uhura)

 

[Christopher]

I wonder once we get to 2265 and Kirk's command of the Enterprise how many people from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" aka the Second pilot (Mark Piper, Mitchell, Kelso, Alden, Yeoman Smith) will make the cut or will be replaced with either SNW characters or one of the core 7 will take their place (I.E. replace Piper with McCoy, and Alden with Uhura)

That's still 5-6 years away in story time. To date, no streaming Trek show has made it more than five seasons.

Granted, Meyers has said they'd be willing to keep going indefinitely even if it crossed into the TOS era. But as for the second pilot characters, there were plenty of TOS episodes where the usual characters were replaced for a week without explanation, like the couple of times Palmer sat in for Uhura.

We'd surely get a new Sulu if they went that far, and Mitchell and Kelso might be worth exploring, though they'd have to tone down Mitchell, who actually was the womanizing rogue that modern fandom erroneously assumes Kirk was. I don't have much interest in the others, though. Piper was a non-entity; he had only eight lines, all of them exposition. He was really just a placeholder until Roddenberry's and DeForest Kelley's schedules both aligned. Alden had only three lines, and couldn't have been more of a Token Black Guy (well, unless he'd been the first character to die). And Yeoman "But it's my only line!" Smith was literally just someone Roddenberry gave a bit part to because he wanted to sleep with her.

 

[Farscape One]

And if I remember correctly, Sulu wasn't even at the helm for "WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE". He was in life sciences, I think... at the very least, it wasn't a bridge position, though he was part of the senior staff meeting.

I wonder if SNW will keep that in mind if and when they get right to that point in time.

 

[Christopher]

And if I remember correctly, Sulu wasn't even at the helm for "WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE". He was in life sciences, I think... at the very least, it wasn't a bridge position, though he was part of the senior staff meeting.

No, Sulu was an astrophysicist. Which is a pretty major career achievement to go completely unmentioned for the rest of the franchise.

 

[Farscape One]

No, Sulu was an astrophysicist. Which is a pretty major career achievement to go completely unmentioned for the rest of the franchise.

(snaps fingers) Astrophysicist, that was it. Thank you.

Sulu was always shown to have a wide array of hobbies... fencing, botany, antique weapons collecting. I can definitely see him hopping between departments before finally becoming helmsman. This has the benefit of great cross-training of ship functions so he can function better in command, because he knows how all those other jobs are done.

The only other lead that worked in multiple departments was Chekov. Navigation, science station, security, engineering... I think he worked every position except communications by the time he was XO of the Reliant. I liked that subtle showing of him being so versatile an officer.

 

[Christopher]

Sulu was always shown to have a wide array of hobbies...

That's just it, though. Being an astrophysicist isn't a hobby, it's a doctorate. Sulu would have to have a Ph.D. to qualify for that title, which means he would've had to devote years of study to that specialty. So it's incongruous that it's never been mentioned again even once.

The only other lead that worked in multiple departments was Chekov.

I assume you mean TOS lead, since both Worf and Geordi changed departments after season 1 of TNG, and we've seen the Lower Deckers move between departments.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

If Prime Chekov is the wunderkind the Kelvin Chekov is made out to be, perhaps Sulu is too, albeit less obviously so. Maybe that's why they get along so well together.

 

[Farscape One]

That's just it, though. Being an astrophysicist isn't a hobby, it's a doctorate. Sulu would have to have a Ph.D. to qualify for that title, which means he would've had to devote years of study to that specialty. So it's incongruous that it's never been mentioned again even once.




I assume you mean TOS lead, since both Worf and Geordi changed departments after season 1 of TNG, and we've seen the Lower Deckers move between departments.

I never said astrophysics was a hobby. I know it requires a degree and years of study. I used his wide range of hobbies as an example to show how versatile a person he is, which subtly shows him having the ability to seamlessly hop between departments, like astrophysics and helm.

And yes, I meant specifically in TOS.

 

[Mudd]

Swap Sulu out for Ortegas. La'An stays, too.

I'm sure someone somewhere would notice if Chekov never shows up, though I can't imagine why they'd care.

 

[Farscape One]

Chekov's too young at this point in SNW, anyway. In "WHO MOURNS FOR ADONAUS?", he said he was 22. With "SPACE SEED" being the year before (or months, depending on time of year in-universe), and the Academy being a 4 year program, Chekov is still in high school right now.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Astrophysicist Sulu is helmsman Sulu’s cousin. He briefly served as Science Officer when Spock became XO. Then they realized Spock could do both jobs at the same pay so Dr. Sulu was sacked.

 

[Odo]

one thing I meant to mention, Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, any continuity ‘glitches’ can be explained as timeline tampering, so things like it Pike meeting Kirk more than once or any Gorn discrepancy

 

[Odo]

I have zero doubt join the show in two or three seasons (if it lasts that long, which I’m cautiously optimistic it will). McCoy I think they’ll save for their final pre-Captain Kirk season. Chekhov will get a cameo if that (unless the show passes well into Kirk’s captaincy).

Sulu being an astrophysicist but then working as a helmsman is the kind of TOS trivia that SNW will use to explore and expand his character and personality.

I’m sure Sulu will also be bisexual.

 

[Odo]

Minor characters, especially if they’re white males like Piper, might show up as cameos or just be referenced. Which I’m fine with.

 

[Christopher]

one thing I meant to mention, Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, any continuity ‘glitches’ can be explained as timeline tampering, so things like it Pike meeting Kirk more than once or any Gorn discrepancy

I also thought "The Menagerie" said Kirk only met Pike once, but it turns out that's not actually the case:

MENDEZ: You ever met Chris Pike?
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.

That's probably what the line was meant to imply, but it's ambiguous enough to allow them to meet more than once.

Anyway, the intent in "Tomorrow" was that the timeline alterations had changed the 20th/21st century to be more like our history, while ensuring that events converged toward the original 23rd-century history. Given how meticulous the writers are about acknowledging things like the fleet captain bit and Chapel's time with Roger Korby, their intention is to stay true to the events of TOS, if not the production design.

McCoy I think they’ll save for their final pre-Captain Kirk season.

McCoy should be someone Kirk brings with him from his first command, which will probably be the Farragut.

Chekhov will get a cameo if that

Hopefully not unless they visit Starfleet Academy in a few years.