Spoilers Secret Invasion grade and discussion

[Charles Phipps]

I think people didn't buy Karli as the villain because they were clearly building up John Walker as the twist antagonist until they got scared and walked it all back in the final episode with an unearned redemption.

Cap vs. anti-cap is way more compelling than an idealist young left wing woman who randomly decides to start killing people, just because.

I think that was never the intent, sadly, because comic US Agent is a hero and Flagsmasher is a villain. Instead, US Agent turning back from "evil" was always meant to be the twist.

If they wanted a full on evil Cap, they would have used the Grand Director.

Besides, Karli was threatening Sam's family and plotting to kill US Agent pretty early. I feel like they should have indicated it was Super Soldier serum, though. She was never meant to be a good guy--just following a good cause.

 

[Aragorn]

So no one can defend the Earth like Nick Fury?

Then why do you bother to create the Avengers Initiative in the first place?

I don't see why they are using six episodes for this it could have been done in two or three and probably would have been a little less boring. But that's my take.

Fortunately for Nick Fury and the people of Earth, this super easy plan for shapeshifters to take over the planet has extremely stupid shapeshifters in charge.

 

[ToddKent]

I get why movies/shows that take place in a shared universe don't constantly have all their characters coming in and saving the day. I wouldn't want that. But I wish the writers could come up with a better reason than "This is my fight" to explain why Fury isn't bringing in the Hulk or Ant-Man or whoever.

 

[eschaton]

I get why movies/shows that take place in a shared universe don't constantly have all their characters coming in and saving the day. I wouldn't want that. But I wish the writers could come up with a better reason than "This is my fight" to explain why Fury isn't bringing in the Hulk or Ant-Man or whoever.

IMHO, the crucial issue with the story is they wanted to have two incompatible things:

• They wanted to do an adaptation of Secret Invasion from the comic arc
• They wanted to have a small-scale story focusing on Nick Fury.

I'm not an expert on the comic book arc, but it's much more akin to the entire Infinity Saga, featuring two different Avengers teams, the Young Avengers, the Thunderbolts, the Fantastic Four, Skrulls pretending to be dozens of other Avengers...I could go on and on. Yes, Fury was in it, but it was not really his story. Due to differences in how the Skrulls were portrayed in the MCU (from the choices in Captain Marvel) there was no way for the Skrull side to be anything like the comics either.

If they wanted to do a small-scale spy thriller that focused on a broken Fury trying to redeem himself...that's fine. Hell, they could have even used Skrulls, since Captain Marvel showed that he had a past history with them. However, they should not have called it Secret Invasion, and they absolutely should not have revealed the whole "Skrulls seek to cause armageddon" thing in the first episode. Just make it some smaller-scale thing where Fury is playing cat and mouse with Gravik, where his plan is only revealed by, say, the end of the third episode, and we don't really see much of anything from the villain POV. Make him get in deeper and deeper over his head until he's trapped precisely because he can't know who he can trust to not be a Skrull, so he's forced to deal with it alone.

 

[FreezeC77]

I assumed that was the point. Karli had way too many people saying, "She's not a villain."

So they made Gravik a genocidal monster.

Some would say Killmonger made some valid points towards Wakanda. There's just like almost no nuance to Gravik. It was a real failed opportunity as you said they already showed in a short-series format they could have a sympathetic villain still going out violence and killing people and show a more 'gray' area.

I get why movies/shows that take place in a shared universe don't constantly have all their characters coming in and saving the day. I wouldn't want that. But I wish the writers could come up with a better reason than "This is my fight" to explain why Fury isn't bringing in the Hulk or Ant-Man or whoever.

It also doesn't make sense in that there are literally powered enemies involved. He knows Gravik has powers, he knows that Giah was able to give herself powers. He doesn't know how many other possible 'super skrulls' there might be. Just grabbing a few guns and going off for a showdown would seem pretty ridiculous so I'm going to assume there's some type of super-powered assist coming.

Let's also not forget that the Skrull who replaced Rhodes has full access to his tech.

I am expecting a fake-out at some point and Fury to be killed and we discover it's an LMD.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

IMHO, the crucial issue with the story is they wanted to have two incompatible things:

• They wanted to do an adaptation of Secret Invasion from the comic arc
• They wanted to have a small-scale story focusing on Nick Fury.

I'm not an expert on the comic book arc, but it's much more akin to the entire Infinity Saga, featuring two different Avengers teams, the Young Avengers, the Thunderbolts, the Fantastic Four, Skrulls pretending to be dozens of other Avengers...I could go on and on. Yes, Fury was in it, but it was not really his story. Due to differences in how the Skrulls were portrayed in the MCU (from the choices in Captain Marvel) there was no way for the Skrull side to be anything like the comics either.

If they wanted to do a small-scale spy thriller that focused on a broken Fury trying to redeem himself...that's fine. Hell, they could have even used Skrulls, since Captain Marvel showed that he had a past history with them. However, they should not have called it Secret Invasion, and they absolutely should not have revealed the whole "Skrulls seek to cause armageddon" thing in the first episode. Just make it some smaller-scale thing where Fury is playing cat and mouse with Gravik, where his plan is only revealed by, say, the end of the third episode, and we don't really see much of anything from the villain POV. Make him get in deeper and deeper over his head until he's trapped precisely because he can't know who he can trust to not be a Skrull, so he's forced to deal with it alone.

The Skrulls could easily have been like in the comics. There was very little backstory about the MCU Skrulls and more than 30 years of missing time between Captain Marvel and Secret Invasion for them to develop a widespread religous cult around the idea of Earth being their rightful homeworld.

Not that it needed to be done that way, but it was certainly possible. And probably a lot better than Fury ignoring his promise for 30 years and Gravik deciding to wipe out the human race for fun.

But you're definitely right about this show trying to be two completely incompatible things simultaneously.

 

[Morpheus 02]

S

I am expecting a fake-out at some point and Fury to be killed and we discover it's an LMD.

Actually, I am thinking it might be a Skrull rather than LMD... again, they made it a point that if a Skrull stays in a shape long enough, even other Skrulls can be fooled. And they showed that there can be a link with the original and the impersonator, which i believe can scramble Skrull minds to the point that they believe they are the original.

We will see...hoping there is some kind o interesting twist.

 

[CaptainWacky]

Why would video of Nick Fury shooting Maria Hill being released make him "the most hated and wanted man on the planet"? Would the general public have any idea who Maria Hill is? They know Fury is the ex-director of S.H.I.E.L.D. so they'd probably think he had good reason for shooting whoever she is. And why would "Nick Fury shoots some woman!" be the biggest news in the world when THERE'S JUST BEEN AN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT ON THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

 

[Aragorn]

Why would video of Nick Fury shooting Maria Hill being released make him "the most hated and wanted man on the planet"? Would the general public have any idea who Maria Hill is? They know Fury is the ex-director of S.H.I.E.L.D. so they'd probably think he had good reason for shooting whoever she is. And why would "Nick Fury shoots some woman!" be the biggest news in the world when THERE'S JUST BEEN AN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT ON THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

You don't mess with Canadian pop stars.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Why would video of Nick Fury shooting Maria Hill being released make him "the most hated and wanted man on the planet"? Would the general public have any idea who Maria Hill is? They know Fury is the ex-director of S.H.I.E.L.D. so they'd probably think he had good reason for shooting whoever she is. And why would "Nick Fury shoots some woman!" be the biggest news in the world when THERE'S JUST BEEN AN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT ON THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

I mean, it now looks like Nick Fury is involved in all of this. Blew up the 6000 civilians and was involved in an assault on the President.

 

[JD]

I was very entertained by the episode. I too, am REALLY enjoying Olivia Coleman. She's makes anything she's in, better.

I get that they needed to give Shaft, um, I mean Fury his "rising from the ashes" moment at the end, but why on earth would he have his gear in all those separate compartments, when he could have stuffed them all into one?

Yeah, that bothered me, too. Hell, the fact that he had those stored in the crypt at all was a little weird.

The Harvest, I get, but the rest felt like a bad reveal just like Priscilla getting her gun from the bank deposit....which now looks even dumber since we now know she had a whole arsenal in her house.

Yeah, the whole thing with him getting his stuff out of the crypt was kind strange. It wasn't like this was some secret technology that he needed to keep hidden, it was a jacket and an eye patch. This show does seem to have a weird thing with trying to make mubdane things into some big dramatic moment. First with Priscilla and the gun, and now Fury and his jacket and eye patch.

Why would video of Nick Fury shooting Maria Hill being released make him "the most hated and wanted man on the planet"? Would the general public have any idea who Maria Hill is? They know Fury is the ex-director of S.H.I.E.L.D. so they'd probably think he had good reason for shooting whoever she is. And why would "Nick Fury shoots some woman!" be the biggest news in the world when THERE'S JUST BEEN AN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT ON THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

Yeah, I didn't that either. Nothing we've seen before would seem to indicate that Hill was so beloved by the public that they would be so outraged he killed her. If they wanted to go that route it would have made more sense to make it one of the Avengers or someone like that, someone we knew was a big popular public figure,
There was some strange stuff and good stuff in this one.
I did like the team up with Priscilla and G'iah, the funeral was a nice little bit of world building for the Skrulls.
I was a little baffled by Gravik deciding to allow all the other Skrulls in New Skrullos to be wiped out. That just seemed like a random turn when his whole motivation was to take over the Earth for them.
Of course Olivia Coleman was still awesome.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Yeah, I didn't that either. Nothing we've seen before would seem to indicate that Hill was so beloved by the public that they would be so outraged he killed her. If they wanted to go that route it would have made more sense to make it one of the Avengers or someone like that, someone we knew was a big popular public figure,

I supposed it was more, "Nick Fury kills known SHIELD agent at terrorist attack that occurs minutes later."

Which does a lot to undermine the obvious defense of, "He was there to stop it."

 

[Morpheus 02]

I supposed it was more, "Nick Fury kills known SHIELD agent at terrorist attack that occurs minutes later."

Which does a lot to undermine the obvious defense of, "He was there to stop it."

It probably would have helped if Skrull-Rhodey had made a public statement... theb it REALLY would have some Umph.

 

[JD]

I supposed it was more, "Nick Fury kills known SHIELD agent at terrorist attack that occurs minutes later."

Which does a lot to undermine the obvious defense of, "He was there to stop it."

Yeah, that does make sense.

 

[thribs]

Saying that humans won’t accept the Skrulls is all well and good but have they forgotten that Asgardians have already moved to Earth? The humans have accepted them so much that they’re a tourist destination. You can’t argue that they look human as well since they have some alien looking people living there.
I land have figured that wasn’t Fury at the base which makes sense but the speech she gives doesn’t make sense coming from her. How would she know Fury’s reason unless he told her. He might have but I don’t recall that.
The fight was fun but they made a gaffe with her turning small. That isn’t a genetic ability but an artificial one one from Pym particles. The treatment wouldn’t make her do that.

 

[Nightowl1701]

Well.


That happened.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

At this point, I don't think the show was going to conclude well due to so many missteps along the way and the whole situation with Ritson fell along those lines. Both the ridiculous sequence at the hospital and his public declaration of war against all Skrulls...only for it to end just as quickly.

I wanted to enjoy much of the show but there were far too many instances of good ideas that were poorly executed. I think this stands out the most with the relationship between Fury and Varra. What could've been a fascinating storyline simply just played out with weird beats along the way. But I'm glad they reconciled in the end and hopefully we'll see her again.

That said, the Super Skrull fight between Gravik and G'iah was a lot of fun...even if it's ultimate conclusion didn't ring true. A giant hole in the abdomen didn't kill Killian so why would it for Gravik? I suppose the energy blast courtesy of Carol made it possible to overcome Extremis' healing potential but I guess it didn't feel clear enough to me that was the case, especially since G'iah had already used a similar blast to pound Gravik to the ground. Speaking of Carol, I wonder if she finds out about the Harvest in The Marvels but I'm guessing it'll be quickly forgotten about.

I am glad the show didn't forget Everett Ross with Martin Freeman making a cameo at the end...but I'm still bugged by how not even Maria didn't comment on his replacement. That should've been early red flag that the show wasn't going to go well.

Ultimately, the show is a disappointment and failure for me. It had incredible potential as a spy thriller and what we got instead, as someone already said last week, was mundane. That's the last thing you want from a thriller and, aside from some great performances (most notably Olivia Colman), the whole thing didn't work.

 

[ashleytinger]

So we have a 3 hour prequel series to the Marvels and not a very well written one. And it'll probably be halfway cast aside like WandaVision was for Dr Strange...

It wasn't thrilling, it was way too predictable, and Secret Invasion just didn't work small scale at all for me. The actors did great with what they were given it was just... not good.

 

[FreezeC77]

It was just a real let-down compared to the comic. The 'level' just felt so subdued and 'agents of shield-ish' (at least when AOS started and was in the MCU) in terms of where it was 'mcu', but you didn't see the big players and nobody interacted the way they did in the comic storyline counterpart then you got a minor MCU character appearance once or twice.

Now I think there were ways around it, but it also really failed to even work with the oncoming MCU plotlines (or at least predicted plotlines). We see them doing a Thunderbolts, they had Everett Ross in this as being replaced. We have had Val appear and seems to be taking the Norman Osborne role as the leader of it.

They could have re-worked the ending of the comic Secret Invasion when Norman Osborne is appointed by the President to lead SHIELD's replacement (HAMMER) after he disbands SHIELD and had it be Val in this and it would have worked with the vitriol and tone the President was using at the end of this episode.

Seemed like a real missed chance there.

BTW, so if I'm to understand the "plan". It was to send Giah with the DNA of many super-powered individuals to confront Gravik and both of them get those super-powers and hope Giah wins in a 1 on 1 fight?

Also if all of these people replaced by Skrulls were being held in a radiation-soaked place... Weren't they exposed to the radiation? I guess it'll be whatever 'stasis' doohickey the Skrulls had that kept all of the replaced humans bodies with nutrition and kept their muscles from atrophy (since pretty much everyone 'walked' out) also kept the radiation away.

 

[Tuskin38]

And they didn't say how long Rhodes was in there, just long enough that he couldn't walk on his own.